Who wants to build a virtual bunker for Drunkduck due to the impending doom?

Seriously, with all the server changes and other changes that DD went through and none going smoothly, I don't know how one that is rushed is going to help things out. I'm sure it's not going to be so bad in the long run, but the next weeks will probably be something.

I don't like this rush tho, especially since no one except the wowio team know what it's about.I'm eager to see the new site though, if it's going to happen anyway, I'd rather have it soon.

Someone
Everyone has been invited to make accounts

?????

I have been completely unsuccessful at creating an account on there.

demontales
Who wants to build a virtual bunker for Drunkduck due to the impending doom?

Seriously, with all the server changes and other changes that DD went through and none going smoothly, I don't know how one that is rushed is going to help things out. I'm sure it's not going to be so bad in the long run, but the next weeks will probably be something.

I don't like this rush tho, especially since no one except the wowio team know what it's about.I'm eager to see the new site though, if it's going to happen anyway, I'd rather have it soon.

I thought it was being rushed too, but I went back to the getSatisfaction forums and Lawrence said the rollover was going to be made by this week (he said “two weeks” 14 days ago, so…). It is going as planned so far, as long as official announcements go.

I'm a little apprehensive about making the move this soon, too. I just hope that once they've made the transfer and after they've fixed any bugs and managed to get everything more or less stabilized (I'm not too optimistic about the transfer going over all that smoothly, either), their first priority should definitely be working on those customization tools they've been talking about to make up for the (supposed) lack of custom html. If they fail to deliver on that in a timely manner, there's going to be a loooooot of angry users.

One other thing: is the web url for the site going to change at all once the move is finished (seeing as they were calling the preview site “The Duck.” )?

Genejoke

Someone
There's also a couple of rock-and-a-hard-place decisions, like the thing with the ad network demanding no other site ads.

I thought they were going to allow user ads but hadn't worked out the exacts of how. Id this not the case?

Not quite. They'd LIKE to allow Project Wonderful ads, but they don't have the clearance (yet?) from the ad network.

harkovast
Skool- Actual humans are working on DD?
They should have got some talking cats in suits of armour to handle it.

No need to be snarky. :] You know what I meant by that.

Dave7
One other thing: is the web url for the site going to change at all once the move is finished (seeing as they were calling the preview site “The Duck.” )?

The word is that there will be a new URL, yes (not sure when). Although we're also told that the old URL should still work, so links aren't broken and so on.

skoolmunkee
The word is that there will be a new URL, yes (not sure when). Although we're also told that the old URL should still work, so links aren't broken and so on.

Are they going to change the url as soon as they changeover the site? Or are they going to stick with the old url at first to give us time to acclimate?

skoolmunkee
Not quite. They'd LIKE to allow Project Wonderful ads, but they don't have the clearance (yet?) from the ad network.

Then they'd better get clearance fast … or the top comics on the twelve-step program taking Duck will leave. After all, this amounts to those top few losing several dollars a day in revenue so Wowio can have their ads there instead. Why would the top creators stay on the rehabbing Duck when they can just go over to less sober hosts that will allow them to continue to earn (leaving only a link page to their new host as a reminder of what has been lost)?

Of course, for most of us the few cents we get a day on PW isn't much of a loss, at least personally speaking.

Two things

1) I want to back up my comics… just in case… but the archives thingy leads me to a page with random type!

2) I noticed the forum has some post in it where they are slowly bringing in members accounts. Since my name started with Z does that mean I will be one of the last people to have my account moved?

If so

zammap
Two things

1) I want to back up my comics… just in case… but the archives thingy leads me to a page with random type!

You need to right-click and save as. If the file type shows up as tar.gz then it's the one you want.

Gunwallace
Then they'd better get clearance fast … or the top comics on the twelve-step program taking Duck will leave.

I don't get they don't leave anyway. If you're doing well enough to have so many visitors a day, then if you find your own server that's very likely to be muuuch faster than DD, then you're doing your readers a big favor.
Just like participating in the forums and community? Then do it! No rule says your comic has to be on here to do so.

It's unrealistic to think things will be perfect from the start, so the first week or two (or 3?) will probably be ironing out the wrinkles that show up.

Dunno know how the hiccups might affect the voice contest. Do script pages have to be in .png, for example? I'm assuming I'll still be available to provide links in posts, but if there are hiccups, they'll have to wait for all the other issues (like custom html and comic forums, for example) to be worked out.

so with everyone/everything else, the voice contest is in wait and see mode, and at the end of the queue.

zammap
1) I want to back up my comics… just in case… but the archives thingy leads me to a page with random type!

me
By the way, while doing a backup of your comic you might encounter some problems using the “archive comic” feature of the comic controls if you are using Firefox (I'm not exactly sure why). If you have problems using that, switch to Internet Explorer (or copy and paste the backup file link in it) or use a download manager like FlashGet for example. The file downloaded is a TAR.GZ which is a zipped file. If you can't open it try using Winrar (40 day trial) or 7zip.

also, be sure to use the url ending in “tar.gz” and not the one you get by clicking “copy link location”

Locoma

zammap
1) I want to back up my comics… just in case… but the archives thingy leads me to a page with random type!

me
By the way, while doing a backup of your comic you might encounter some problems using the “archive comic” feature of the comic controls if you are using Firefox (I'm not exactly sure why). If you have problems using that, switch to Internet Explorer (or copy and paste the backup file link in it) or use a download manager like FlashGet for example. The file downloaded is a TAR.GZ which is a zipped file. If you can't open it try using Winrar (40 day trial) or 7zip.

also, be sure to use the url ending in “tar.gz” and not the one you get by clicking “copy link location”

When I right click and choose save as it tries to save it as a PHP and NEVER downloads

You know, I remember back when Wowio was just going to make all our lives better… put DrunkDuck on a faster server and life was going to be great. Then, wait, more than just a fast server, we're going to completely redo the site TO MAKE IT EASIER TO POST YOUR COMICS. Then, wait, no, we made a new site but it's not perfect, so all you members of DD tell us what we need to fix (and now, of course, WE CAN'T CHANGE ANYTHING RIGHT NOW BECAUSE WE NEED TO MOVE THE SITE BUT YOUR CHANGES WILL BE MADE SOMEDAY… MAYBE). And of course, yes, you can still have all your own html and ad banners (MAYBE, SOMEDAY… BUT NOT RIGHT NOW).

Ozone and Skool are being led around by Wowio… they tell us what Wowio tells them, then when Wowio reveals the truth, OZ and Skool are left to scramble around for excuses.

You can't have ad banners of your own, you can't change html, you MUST have at least 3 ad banners on every page, including popups (look at the source code, a popup ad is embedded) and flash animated ads.

No one remembers WEvolt now, but it was a nice place once (ask Ozone, he still has his comic there). Now, the actual webcomic occupies a small spot on a huge page of ads and Wowio links, you actually have to scroll around to find the comic page. That is the Wowio pattern and it is happening here as well.

I told all you guys this from the start, but you all believed Wowio. Now, look what you've got. As a group of thousands of artists, we could have stood up and demanded changes… now, you can't. Now, you either stick around on a third rate webcomics site, or you leave.

Read through all my old posts in this thread, read how I was attacked by some, and read how everything I said has now come true.

We had power once, we could have stopped all these changes… I left (with my top 50 comic), dozens of others left (some with ratings higher than mine)… you remaining have no voice now.

Notice NONE of your suggested changes have happened… color, ads, html… nope, nothing. ‘We have to make the change-over quickly, but as soon as we can we’ll look at your suggestions'… does anyone here actually believe that now? Anyone at all?

I was here because I loved the forums… Oz and Skool moderated them responsively and professionally… it was THE place to be if you made webcomics… and yes, I still check into the forums every day… maybe trying to make a bad dream go away, maybe hoping Wowio has sold DD to someone else, who knows. I had a lot of friends here, it was my home (and actually my browser homepage). So some wonder why I care, why I'm passionate about this… it's because I loved this place, it was home.

I guess I just feel I need to make these memories stand clear, that's why I keep posting, and perhaps hoping against hope, someone here will start a new webcomics host site for the refugees and weary veterans of an ill-fought war. I'd be the first one to join up…

After a study break and a good hour of researching Wowio's history, I have to say that I can't help but feel apprehensive again. The name change, the beta testing, the ads, the code that isn't working…eerily similar to WeVolt (that was apparently called “Panelflow” before “WeVolt” ), you can't deny that. :/ And that site pretty much has been “dead” since January (look at the forums; no one has really been posting since last year!) after it was acquired about 6 months before.

Please don't destroy this site, Wowio… =_=

@Tim

I don't disgree with a lot of your points but I have to say that you weren't a lone voice in the darkness, people did speak up. We also found that ranting was as much use as being quiet and most resorted to using the feedback button. I really do get why you were pissed, the handling of changes has been appalling and the admins have been getting it rough, probably from both sides.

We did our part and now wowio need to do theirs.

I will give them a chance but like most I have doubts, I will stick around in some capacity regardless. Ksteak made a good point about that.

Nicotine
The name change, the beta testing, the ads, the code that isn't working…eerily similar to WeVolt (that was apparently called “Panelflow” before “WeVolt” ), you can't deny that. :/ And that site pretty much has been “dead” since January (look at the forums; no one has really been posting since last year!) after it was acquired about 6 months before.

All I know about them is that Matt and Jason who were the creators of that site are happily working away at Wowio every day- right this minute- That's where they are. :)

Last year I met them both on in a pub called the something or other Crow (can''t recall) and then again at the Wowio Yacht party during Comic con, all at San Diego. Wevolt was being launched (or something) then.

With Wevolt, Wowio didn't go in there are change stuff, that has been Matt and Jason behind all that's in there all along from before Wowio up to this very minute.
The thing is, the features were just a bit too confusingly designed and not that user friendly so it never really picked up much of a user following. THAT is why it's not so busy now.

Well, this is a bit of a rant (I'm warning you! xD), but this is basically what I've found:

ozoneocean
[All I know about them is that Matt and Jason who were the creators of that site are happily working away at Wowio every day- right this minute- That's where they are. :)

This doesn't really shock me; Wowio bought their site after all and most likely had an influence over a lot of what their doing.

ozoneocean
Last year I met them both on in a pub called the something or other Crow (can''t recall) and then again at the Wowio Yacht party during Comic con, all at San Diego. Wevolt was being launched (or something) then.

With Wevolt, Wowio didn't go in there are change stuff, that has been Matt and Jason behind all that's in there all along from before Wowio up to this very minute.
The thing is, the features were just a bit too confusingly designed and not that user friendly so it never really picked up much of a user following. THAT is why it's not so busy now.

According to a Wowio representitive on Bleeding Cool, Wowio did make changes:

Bleeding Cool
Eventually all user accounts will be tied together so you can use your DD/Wowio/WEvolt login to access everything and it's all one account.

So not a conflict of interest, more just one big happy webcomic / ebook family. And I haven't even mentioned the tools we've built for the fans and community, like the XP / Rewards system. It's better to just go check it out for yourself and play around.

From here.

Hmm…I don't remember them telling us that they planned to adopt us into some big family! Granted that thread was from last year, maybe they've changed their business ventures again.

The yacht party, yes, according to their advertising agency, that was a method for Wowio to

Wilkinson Group
develop positive public relations, press, advertisers, strategic partners and market re-launched website, acquisitions, business-to-business and business-to-consumer promotional activities.

And so the yacht was a perfect marketing ploy:

TWG
TWG Solution:
Instead of just “another exhibitor booth” at this Convention, TWG created a cut through the clutter Convention presence for WOWIO by delivering the WOWIO Comic Cruise, procuring a docked super yacht for WOWIO marketing and business activities, as well as the exclusive, parallel berth behind the convention center to provide a versatile platform for the accomplishment of all WOWIO business initiatives at The Con.

Now, there is nothing wrong with advertising, even webcomic creators do it, by while Wowio is spending all this money and energy on this elaborate promotions, you would think they would have enough foresight to make proper website designs for their sites they've acquired before shoving all the users into an undesirable experience.

(Their marketing site here.)

—–

I feel that after alienating the eBook community with their changes, ideas, and ads, they are now moving on to a new venture: webcomics.

A lot of people that are into ebooks have had unfavorable and bad experiences with them. The did their “ads everywhere” scheme with them too. With Wowio's history of being relying heavily on ads for revenue, I don't see them allowing Project Wonderful ads. :/

After all

Publisher's Weekly
The new owner of Wowio.com, Brian Altounian, was previously president and COO of Wowio's former parent company, Platinum Studios—a controversial firm with a history of financial problems and creator complaints

(PW article here.)

…so we shouldn't be surprised. :/

Genejoke
I will give them a chance but like most I have doubts, I will stick around in some capacity regardless.

My sentiments exactly.

You've mostly just drawn your own inferences there Nic.- fair enough, there's a prevailing attitide you can't help but pick up on. (No criticism off you here)

Nicotine

ozoneocean
All I know about them is that Matt and Jason who were the creators of that site are happily working away at Wowio every day- right this minute- That's where they are. :)

This doesn't really shock me; Wowio bought their site after all and most likely had an influence over a lot of what their doing.

Noooo, you're drawing completely the wrong conclusion-
Matt and Jason made that thing from the ground up. The Wowio part is just money for them to turn it into a professional site. Those guys made ALL the programming design choices. Trying to infer that any failure of Wevolt was down to some mysterious influnce from Wowio is silly.
If you had your comic on there from the beginning you'd know what I mean. If anything, what they really, REALLY needed was more oversight! -Someone looking over their shoulder and saying “Hey guys, this just isn't streamlined and user-friendly enough, now change it till it is!”
They both tried their best but I think they're really programmers at heart and can't really see things from a dumb user perspective, no mater how hard they try.
And as a dumb user myself, I struggled with Wevolt always :(

Nicotine
According to a Wowio representitive on Bleeding Cool, Wowio did make changes:

Bleeding Cool
Eventually all user accounts will be tied together so you can use your DD/Wowio/WEvolt login to access everything and it's all one account.

So not a conflict of interest, more just one big happy webcomic / ebook family. And I haven't even mentioned the tools we've built for the fans and community, like the XP / Rewards system. It's better to just go check it out for yourself and play around.

From here.

Hmm…I don't remember them telling us that they planned to adopt us into some big family! Granted that thread was from last year, maybe they've changed their business ventures again.

Ah…? I don't se that as really “making changes”. And that “one password/one account” thing just makes total sense really. I mean, look at the rest of the web now: You can sign in to most of your fave popular services from Facebook, to Twitter, to Gmail, Youtube, and a bazillion news sites and blog sites using the same account details. The web is becoming more connected.
Personally, I think it'd be cool if they brought that integration here- allowed us to connect our Google and Facebook accounts etc like you can everywhere else.

Nicotine
The yacht party, yes, according to their advertising agency, that was a method for Wowio to

Wilkinson Group
develop positive public relations, press, advertisers, strategic partners and market re-launched website, acquisitions, business-to-business and business-to-consumer promotional activities

Yeah, all the Con is one giant marketing event, like most cons. All businesses, actors, everyone there was doing that. Comic Con is big business. That's what you have to do when you're in that sort of media industry. :)
But we still had fun anyway!

Nicotine
I feel that after alienating the eBook community with their changes, ideas, and ads, they are now moving on to a new venture: webcomics.

If there was any issue with their e-books at all, it wasn't ads, it was that they increased their profit margin on that a bit. Initially it was SUPER generous to the creators, but after a while they changed the terms a bit. At the time some people were peeved but most old hands accepted that's what always happens with those sorts of services where you're making money: initial terms are amazing to get the thing up and running and then it gets dialled back after it's established. Early adopters are always the lucky ones in money making ventures like that one.

Nicotine
I don't see them allowing Project Wonderful ads. :/

As previously addressed- that isn't something Wowio is allowing or disallowing themselves- it's the particular deal they set up with a big money advertising network, They're waiting on that network as to what THEY will allow.
The people that agreed to the terms at Wowio initially really weren't that aware of how people used PW (and other stuff). I like Lawrence approached DD like a news or blog site and didn't know enough to take into account our particular needs in that regard.

Nicotine
After all

Publisher's Weekly
The new owner of Wowio.com, Brian Altounian, was previously president and COO of Wowio's former parent company, Platinum Studios—a controversial firm with a history of financial problems and creator complaints

…so we shouldn't be surprised. :/

No, that's the same old guff that's been kicking around for ages. That article is just trying to create an impression that Brian is a monster by creating a false connection with all those things that happened with Plat that we know very well about. ALL us old timers here know exactly what “creator” complaints there were.
That is just a very, very silly piece nasty trash-talk rumour making. -no criticism of you Nic, but we get that same crap quoted a LOT.

——————————————-

There's a false history being created again… Let me straighten some things out:

The bottom line is that it was Lawrence (who you can ALL hear on two quackcasts) who was behind the move to the whole new site for DD, not some strange, weird hive-mind known as “wowio”.
He was hired on as the new main programmer and had a lot of trouble patching problems at DD. Skool and I know that VERY, VERY well, because it was US who kept badgering him to fix things!

After dealing with the house of cards programming situation that DD is, Lawrence wanted to rebuild the whole thing from the ground up. Most of the community wanted the site upgraded and all the issues fixed and new features added- US- the people of DD!
And Wowio wanted to give that to us.
But to do that, the site needed to be rebuilt, according to Lawrence. They already tried adding the features and fixing things using the old code and the site completely crapped itself. So Lawrence was probably right.

Part of justifying over 6 solid months developing and testing an entirely new version of this website is that some of that investment of money and man hours would have to be recouped in some way. The obvious one is through ads.

That's it. There's no horrible conspiracy here or weird evil businessman stuff going on behind closed doors in smoky rooms by greasy men in shiny suits, it's all really pretty open and out there. The REAL issue is whether the design decisions that Lawrence has made (stuff like the HTML etc) will really work that well.
We all have some doubts. We'll just wait and see.
-I can't stand the forums on the preview site and the comic creation tools are limited, but the front page, news etc are great and hopefully with the new code base Lawrence can add and fix whatever he likes without worrying about breaking every single thing on the site every time after teeny changes, which happens now on this version of the site.

Most of it sounds okay, the reasoning etc make sense.

BUT.

getting into an advertising deal like that was VERY shortsighted. Assuming that is the true reason as they initially passed it off as part of the html/security thing which makes me wonder.
regardless of the reasons it is going to be damaging if they don't get it sorted VERY soon. Although I don't think you need to be told that.

Ozone makes it as though it's all a big misunderstanding and Wowio are really a big ol cute puppy instead of a dingo stealing babies.
Rosenburg also made everything sound like it was going to turn out smashing in the podcast he was on.

If wowio find they still can't make any money from this place it will probably be left to sit in the dust again like under Platinum.

And what the heck happened to that To-do list???

Genejoke
html/security thing

THAT was 100% Lawrence's baby.
That started because over the last two years DD has increasingly had users coming in and saying they were getting viruses off DD- or malware etc.
Skool and I kept of reporting those to him and Kinh and they had to keep on going back and fourth to hunt it out. Skool and I always said it was part of bad ads that were exploiting our shitty ad network, but Lawrence has this idea that the way DD is set up is insecure and that all the problems were probably from people exploiting the DD HTML editing features and file uploads to put malicious stuff on the site.

Skool and I continue to say it's the ads, but that's his reasoning. He's in charge of that facet and THAT is the story behind the loss of HTML.
Instead, he wants to give us all the tools we need to make pages up fully without good old fashioned standard HTML editing. There ARE ways to do that, it just takes a lot of time to do it.
Personally, I prefer good old fashioned HTML! >:[

Plus, Lawrence is an Apple man, and you know how Apple is–> do things our way and life will be wonderful, trust is, we know best :)
He's a great programmer though, so, maybe wait and see. Eh?

ozoneocean
stuff about lawrence

I'm not too worried about the loss of html customization if we get something that does almost as well. on that I'm happy to give them the benefit of the doubt, in fact he did sound really enthused about it.

What bothers me is the potential lack of user ads, PW stuff and banner exchanges and other such. I get the reasons given but they aren't enough to stop people leaving.

Genejoke
What bothers me is the potential lack of user ads, PW stuff and banner exchanges and other such.

The PW stuff is irritating- and not being able to have user links or banners is a massive, huge, gigantic thing. I've ridden Lawrence and Kinh hard over that- way before you guys even saw the preview site.

Since then I've been assured many times that people will be able to put links and link banners in.
But I'll keep on bringing it up till it happens. That sort of thing is ESSENTIAL for webcomics or else they basically start to die.
-Without readership, a webcomic is nothing, and link banner exchanges, PW ads (to subsidise your own PW ads) etc are the tools creators have for getting people in. You CAN NOT get a lot of traffic just through DD itself, that will never be enough by itself to sustain a comics with decent readership.

So yeah. Banners, buttons and links FTW.

I'm a bit concerned about the one login thing since I have a Wowio account, a DD account, and a WeVolt account and I'm pretty sure that they are all different. Now I'm not sure which one they'll make as the primary account to sign in for all of the sites. If it's the original Wowio one then that's probably going to change my user name here. While I'm also sure that it's not much of a variation to what I use here, it's still going to be something different and I'm not too keen on just getting an automatic change like that. However, I've dealt with something like this before with the Wiskey Media people whom I mentioned in an earlier post, and while they allowed us to basically keep our account names when they linked all of their sites, we still had to re-register for the all-in-one account, which is probably what will happen with us, or at least I hope so.

I'm doubtful that unified media thing will happen. Way, way back they talked to us about implementing some changes that would make stuff people uploaded on DD more suitable for WEvolt (I think because at the time they felt that would be the better primary platform) and Oz and I basically told them uniformly no. With DD getting a new site (and WEvolt so difficult and restricting to use) I suspect they've changed tacks since then.

But if they do want to merge accounts, if they're smart the'll do the type of thing google did when it was merging its services and let you choose which one you want to go with for all of them, or create a new one to fold them all into.


No idea on if the changeover is still happening today or what, we haven't heard anything in the last day or two. Hang tight I guess, guys. :]

I looked serously at wevot, uploaded 6 pages there. but since my comic has like 500 odd pages.. I said no. I am not going to upload them all one by one, I am going to pretend I never thought about doing that.
When I came to Drunk Duck I was fortunate that my comic was only 20 odd pages long. so uploading 20 pages using the uploader was OK. Had I arrived at Drunkduck now with 500 under my belt, I would NOT join and upload them unless there was a FTP option

The old one is still here…

Yeah, these things are always late. :)

Still, better that we were warned eh?
Just in case!

But if you're headedto the gallows you would rather get it over with right? :D

Wasn't the big change supposed to be yesterday(Weds)? If so, I love the new site design… they just need to get rid of that annoying ‘Check out the Preview Edition’ banner :-)

Seriously, you can google WEvolt… you can see several people talking about how nice and clean it was before Wowio, and how Wowio added all those side links and banners as soon as they took over. I'm sure the former owners are happy to count their cash and pat Wowio on the back, but Wowio DID ruin WEvolt (the back-patting sounds familiar, doesn't it?).

No one is happy. Does Wowio honestly realize that? Do they live in such a tight corporate bubble that they can't see the truth? I think they know… and they don't care. At all. Not at all.

So, the site will go live with no changes (oh my, we just didn't have time to make changes! Bull… the colors could have been changed in less than an hour. And not adding rawhtml? All other free webcomics sites except those owned by Wowio have that bit of code included)… all that ‘suggestions’ stuff was just a game… same colors, same ‘no html’, same ‘no ads’… same ‘accept our huge ads all over your pages’… why was the ruse of asking for suggestions even started? To placate some… to make us think they were listening. They had the entire thing planned, as I said before, chiseled out in stone, and by god, that's the way Drunk Duck is going to be. Not a single suggestion accepted, none. You all wasted your time (and very valuable time, you could have been drawing instead of filling out forms).

Oh, and a universal login? That's new… so, Wowio can follow you all over the net and plaster ads they think you'll click on. The bright thing (at least until the png popup codes start working) is to browse all wowio sites with ad blocker going full strength… but even then they'll track you with cookies… gee, you read 10 pages of a comic on WEvolt, but only 3 on DD? Let's make DD more like Wevolt! And they paid a lot more for WEvolt than they did DrunkDuck.

DD is ruined, we all know that, just the number of complaints and concerns shows that to anyone not on Wowio's payroll. It's not about saving DD, it's about what we can do to make another webcomics site we can all use, with the same good people here.

And I fear the admins here are being led down a path, too… do you not know that Wowio is receiving dozens of applications from college-trained website administrators? You'll soon hear the ‘we need to make a clean start’ speech. You think it won't happen? You thought they were listening to our suggestions and complaints…