General Discussion

The Duck PREVIEW Site is now Live!
Ally Haert at 7:29AM, April 30, 2011
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They sounded knowledgeable - well, knowledgeable enough. They didn't sound like artists who'd been posting comics themselves, but I have to disagree with the "they just don't know Drunk Duck personally" argument.

All three of them mentioned being readers (at the very least) for some length of time. And I can't buy the argument that they are clueless. They've come up with some awesome new improvements (like nesting comments and pq's) all on their own. That shows at least some familiarity with the site.

The more I'm frequenting the preview, the more I'm actually looking forward to the rollover to the new site. I really feel as long as there is an ability to sufficiently customize a comic, then we might actually be gaining more than we are losing!

What, why are you looking at me like that? Yes, I like the new site. No- don't hate me! Aaah!-
*dodges rotten fruit*
“No one can go back to start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending,” Maria Ross.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:49AM
ksteak at 11:38AM, May 1, 2011
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Oh I'm sure they know the ins and outs of DD, and they mentioned having built other community sites at some point, so they know the kind of stuff that goes well with that. They just come off to me as detached from web comics. They admitted to staying away from the forums, and they took a long while to get what Ozone was on about when he was trying to explain the use of Project Wonderful.
Ah, whatever, I'm being too critical…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:24PM
Genejoke at 10:58PM, May 1, 2011
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I thought they sounded like they were trying too hard and some of the comments made them sounded like they were deliberately avoiding certain issues. That said overall they did pretty well. time will tell.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:34PM
skoolmunkee at 6:59AM, May 8, 2011
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Just a heads-up, I made a newspost about this too, but the preview site is becoming the main site this week (probably Wednesday).
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:44PM
Genejoke at 7:14AM, May 8, 2011
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I just saw that, sooner than I imagined. I hope to god it goes smoothly, but I have doubts.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:34PM
skoolmunkee at 8:29AM, May 8, 2011
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Yeah, it is pretty soon. I think the best we can hope for is that it does go smoothly, but I'm not sure how well “switching to the new site before all the functionality is there” will go over. As I said in the newspost, Wowio is under some pressure I guess. They're well aware of any objections. :I
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:44PM
Genejoke at 9:14AM, May 8, 2011
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Yeah I picked upon your opinion of the move.

As long as things function it should be okay, maybe…

i hope they fix the forums though, those are still rubbish.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:34PM
ozoneocean at 9:32AM, May 8, 2011
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Genejoke
i hope they fix the forums though, those are still rubbish.
Oooooooh yeah. -_-
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
Nicotine at 10:12AM, May 8, 2011
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skoolmunkee
Just a heads-up, I made a newspost about this too, but the preview site is becoming the main site this week (probably Wednesday).

Oh man…hold on to your knickers people, this is going to be a bumpy neon yellow-and-green ride…!
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:16PM
Genejoke at 10:20AM, May 8, 2011
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I'm assuming that once it is switched they can then dedicate all their time to getting it right.

Also assuming they aren't going to spring anything else on us then I hope it may be something of a turning point.

Yep I have my optimistic head on.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:34PM
harkovast at 10:32AM, May 8, 2011
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Well I guess thats the end of my time at the duck.
I've heard nothing about my HTML code being changeable, the layout of my comic is screwed up on the preview and i wont be able to fix it.
I cant carry on with my comic layout working properly.

All my links to other comics, networking buttons and adverts don't appear on the new site.

I want to stay but what am I suppose to do in like of all the features I use being removed?

There is nothing I can do and no room for debate as the update is happening now, so I seem to be out of options.

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:45PM
Niccea at 10:37AM, May 8, 2011
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Hark, did you even read Skool's newspost?

http://www.drunkduck.com/news/news_archive.php?story=1098

When they roll over the site, any custom HTML stays. Give it until the rollover before you decide to quit.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:15PM
ozoneocean at 11:09AM, May 8, 2011
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harkovast
Well I guess thats the end of my time at the duck.
I've heard nothing about my HTML code being changeable, the layout of my comic is screwed up on the preview and i wont be able to fix it.
I cant carry on with my comic layout working properly.

All my links to other comics, networking buttons and adverts don't appear on the new site.

I want to stay but what am I suppose to do in like of all the features I use being removed?

There is nothing I can do and no room for debate as the update is happening now, so I seem to be out of options.
Niccea's right Hark.
You really should read newsposts, especially when they're specifically linked to in the post you're posting in reaction too ;)

But, I'll repeat it again:

-The Templates on the preview site will ALL be wiped!
-Your OWN html template that you currently have on DD will be the one that will go up on the new site.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
Genejoke at 11:18AM, May 8, 2011
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i think the problem is the short notice, it's sort of come out of nowhere and immediately gets people worried.

Obviously out of your hands but I initially skimmed over it before commenting then I went back and read it and felt mildly better. I'm trying to remain hopeful here.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:34PM
Niccea at 11:33AM, May 8, 2011
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I would like to take a moment to say, that if there are some concerns/questions/problems, you should still go to Get Satisfaction with them. (Link in my sig). If you see a post that you agree with that hasn't been responded too or is far down the list, make a reply to bring it up so more people can see it.

We can't do anything about the rollover, but we can make sure we have documentation of our questions/concerns before the fact.

I would also recommend that everyone know there BBCode because the use of
[code]code[/code]
and spoiler and
quote
will work, but there are no dedicated buttons in the new forums yet.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:15PM
Gunwallace at 3:00PM, May 8, 2011
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I've got a wait and see mentality to all this, but I am concerned about the move. Recent changes/problems to the site have all seen high profile losses to the community, and the number of ‘blank’ images and missing pages on old comics 9that have not been reloaded) is embarrassing and not reader friendly.

I worry that sobering the duck will result in a lesser community.

I worry because the forces driving this move are not the voices we know, the reasons for it are unclear. Why is Wowio under pressure to make the changeover? Pressure from who? where? why? Is it all about money?

The ‘Get Satisfaction’ system is difficult to use, and very unsatisfying. If that's the new community functionality then I'm really worried.

I'm worried the actual things I do on the Detoxing Duck are not being given priority. Putting up pages seems to be less important than viewing them. But maybe that's as it should be?

However, if the end result is a faster, easier to surf (for the reader) website then I'll be a happy user.

Although, I've started posting my comics elsewhere, just to be safe …
David ‘Gunwallace’ Tulloch, www.virtuallycomics.com
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:40PM
Nicotine at 4:12PM, May 8, 2011
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Gunwallace
The ‘Get Satisfaction’ system is difficult to use, and very unsatisfying. If that's the new community functionality then I'm really worried.

I agree…are we going to have to sign up again on the new site? I don't get how our comics will remain under our names if we have to have the ‘Get Satisfaction’ accounts. It's very confusing.

I want to be positive, but the way that site looks…it's hard to be. I wonder what the hurry is, I'm uneasy that there's something going on behind the scenes that the mods weren't even informed about :/. I hope DD doesn't lose it's strong sense of community. There are a lot of people that come and go and when they come back and see that this old site is gone I don't think it'll bode well.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:16PM
Niccea at 6:07PM, May 8, 2011
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Nicotine, I don't understand what you mean. Get Satisfaction has nothing to do with Drunk Duck. It is just a third party site being used as a feedback tool so everything can be kept in one place.

You won't have to make a new account for the rollover.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:15PM
El Cid at 7:04PM, May 8, 2011
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I'm a little nervous that we're just a couple days away from a rush overhaul, by people who think they can actually save space by converting all of our jpegs over to PNG (WTF?!!).

Just please tell me they're going to keep the original Duck in a back pocket somewhere, in case we need someplace to run to when the new site goes belly up?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:20PM
Tim Wellman at 7:38PM, May 8, 2011
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I'm still waiting to see what happens. It has been stated that your exact html will be carried over to the new site… that HAS to mean that all the user-installed ad banners will carry over too, then, right? All the banners to off-site places, like for example, Modest Medusa's links to T-shirts and stuff, will carry over.

If that's true, great (even though the links can never be changed again).

I just visited some comics on the preview site and most of them have been switched over to a generic white template, NOT the user-modified templates that were there earlier, so was that just an experiment?

Most of them now look like this
http://preview.drunkduck.com/Modest_Medusa/
with absolutely no user-supplied content other than the comic page itself.

And from what I've seen, png images are 3 to 4 times bigger than jpg. But, vbs and javascript code can be embedded into png images which can create a popup ad that ad blockers in browsers can't detect.

http://blog.commtouch.com/cafe/malware/complex-pdf-hides-malware-inside-xfa-which-is-inside-png-%E2%80%93-not-an-image/


last edited on July 14, 2011 4:30PM
Nicotine at 7:55PM, May 8, 2011
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Niccea
Nicotine, I don't understand what you mean. Get Satisfaction has nothing to do with Drunk Duck. It is just a third party site being used as a feedback tool so everything can be kept in one place.

You won't have to make a new account for the rollover.

Oh okay. xD I was just confused.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:16PM
Locoma at 10:41PM, May 8, 2011
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Damn. I was quite confident after hearing that the move was planned to be made only after things were ready. On the other hand, I've seen worse on the web… and so did DrunkDuck for that matter. I'm just hoping nothing in the DD database will be lost during the makeover (like comic pages, author's notes and comments). So much webcomic history :P

By the way, while doing a backup of your comic you might encounter some problems using the “archive comic” feature of the comic controls if you are using Firefox (I'm not exactly sure why). If you have problems using that, switch to Internet Explorer (or copy and paste the backup file link in it) or use a download manager like FlashGet for example. The file downloaded is a TAR.GZ which is a zipped file. If you can't open it try using Winrar (40 day trial) or 7zip.

If you don't know what “archive comic” is, it's an automatic backup option for your comic pages (comic pages and files, like your gfx and html ones) that you can use going to your comic controls and clicking “show advanced options”.

Edit: I went back to getSatisfaction forums and re-read the “when's is D-Day” topic where AllyHaert asked about the official rollover day, and Lawrence said “a couple of weeks” 14 days ago, so they are on schedule. (topic link)
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:38PM
harkovast at 12:12AM, May 9, 2011
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I think the direct copy of it is going to screw up.
My layout screwed up last time they tried to transfer stuff, and it screwed up in the preview.
I have yet to see them not screw it up, so I dont see why I shouldn't expect more of the same.

Once it is carried over, I wont be able to change anything, so if it does get messed up in some way I will be unable to fix it.

You will have to forgive my lack of optimism, but being able to edit the appearance of my comic is very important, especially when there is a very good chance the layout is now going to be messed up.

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:45PM
ozoneocean at 12:28AM, May 9, 2011
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harkovast
My layout screwed up last time they tried to transfer stuff, and it screwed up in the preview.
NO IT DID NOT!

It was NOT a direct copy. It was a specially modified one to use with the new ad positions and things. It was hand coded by Dan who is one of the people working under Lawrence. Next time the whole thing is slated to transfer over as it is currently on this version of DD.
If you persist i under your misapprehension I'll PQ you about it and explain again Hark, but this is getting a little wearisome. :(
Tim Wellman
But, vbs and javascript code can be embedded into png images which can create a popup ad that ad blockers in browsers can't detect.
Apparently the png conversion is something that goes on on the sever and then some process shrinks the size, so presumably anything embedded in a pre-made png would go.

El Cid
I'm a little nervous that we're just a couple days away from a rush overhaul, by people who think they can actually save space by converting all of our jpegs over to PNG (WTF?!!).
Skool and I are extremely dubious about this too, but we're assured there's some process for shrinking them.
The reason for it is because DD has to be ready for a “mobile” version… “Wait” you say, “don't jpgs, gifs, and even swf files render fine on many mobile devices?”
Why yes they do my good fellow! But I presume this is some strange Apple requirement. I know not of that strange fruity land and its topsy turvy needs.

El Cid
Just please tell me they're going to keep the original Duck in a back pocket somewhere
I believe it will.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
skoolmunkee at 12:41AM, May 9, 2011
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harkovast
Once it is carried over, I wont be able to change anything, so if it does get messed up in some way I will be unable to fix it.

This is one of my worries. Although we know the custom HTML will move over, I personally don't know if links to subforums, etc will still be pointing at the right place, or even whether extra pages like ‘characters’ and whatever will come over or not.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:44PM
MrHades at 2:28AM, May 9, 2011
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Well, roll on Wednesday! lol
Hey, why not follow me on Twitter? User name: @THE_MrHades
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:08PM
Genejoke at 2:44AM, May 9, 2011
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I'm copying archives just in case.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:34PM
harkovast at 3:09AM, May 9, 2011
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Ozone, there is no need to be rude.
Shouting at me isn't exactly being helpful, nor is sarcasm.

I think it is actually you who isn't understanding my point, which is this-

Twice now the I've been shown what my comic will look like after a transfer and twice it has messed up the layout.
Now you tell me this third time things will be different, but based on the last two times I don't have much confidence that it wont go (at least a little) wrong.
If/when it does go wrong, I wont be able to fix it because I wont be able to change anything with my html.
This means that if (as has happened before) the font comes out the wrong colour so you cant read it against a black background…I'm basically stuck.
Even if the problem is more minor, I am still going to be stuck with it.
I dont want to end up with a comic covered in none fucntioning ad boxes and links that go nowhere.
I dont see that I am misunderstanding anything in that summary.

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:45PM
Genejoke at 3:32AM, May 9, 2011
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Not long now, I hope they get it right.

If they don't hopefully it won't be long until they get it sorted as they won't be worrying about the old site anymore.

Still I'm anxious.

it's out all our hands now so I think we're best off waiting to see how it comes off.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:34PM
skoolmunkee at 4:57AM, May 9, 2011
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harkovast
Twice now the I've been shown what my comic will look like after a transfer and twice it has messed up the layout.
Now you tell me this third time things will be different, but based on the last two times I don't have much confidence that it wont go (at least a little) wrong.

I'm not sure what the first time you're talking about is, but the layouts that are currently up on the preview site aren't ports of the custom HTML. What the programmers did for those was look at the custom HTML people have currently on DD, then tried to rebuild that using an in-house tool they were developing, to test the extent to which it might meet the customization needs of people. From my understanding it was relatively rudimentary and a more robust system is planned, with drag-and-drop bits and resizable elements and stuff, but it was taking too long and now won't exist until some point after the changeover.

Their original plan had been to run custom html through some engine that would convert it into their new system, but as that system doesn't exist yet, their revised/current plan is just to copy it all over directly. That's what we've been told anyway, just copying over the html files.

We do understand the worry of not being able to modify things after the changeover. We've been continuing to talk to them about the html (and other) stuff and unfortunately there are a number of things which we don't have much influence on. Not everyone at Wowio is always in agreement either on various issues. From the sounds of it they've been having endless meetings for months about some of this stuff. There's also a couple of rock-and-a-hard-place decisions, like the thing with the ad network demanding no other site ads.


And this isn't directed at anyone in particular: It is very easy to spot shortcomings and expect the worst, I've done my share of grumping to them. The things which are good or which work well don't often get commented on. I'm still cautiously optimistic, knowing that Wowio is sinking a LOT of man-hours and focus into DD and they won't want that to have been wasted. There are actual humans who do like the site in key roles and have been able to ensure a number of positive developments. I'm hopeful that even if something is implemented where the reaction is very negative or it's just unworkable, they'll be motivated to change it as much as they can. Unfortunately the cloud that the site has ALWAYS operated under is that it doesn't manage to pay for itself, and that has had an effect on a number of decisions.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:44PM

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