General Discussion

The Duck PREVIEW Site is now Live!
ozoneocean at 8:31AM, May 15, 2011
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lothar
templates and stuff like that feels like those plastic scissors you have to use in preschool, BORING !
Yup. Very true.
The idea is to code in much more advanced tools that's much more WYSIWYG, so it won't always be as basic as that.

Even so, I love having that sort of easy template editing functionality for basic users, but all of us more savy types should be catered for as well (with full html access). There's no reason for us ALL to have to sit at the kiddy table.

All I can do is repeat that the tools will get a lot better.




…Now I just wish the change over would go ahead so we can get all the grumping over with. My prediction is for Monday or Tuesday.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
Product Placement at 8:43AM, May 15, 2011
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Anubis
Can you supply us with an email address so we the users can petition them outselves. That way they can get a feel of how much HTML editing is needed by their content providers.


It is a good idea because they kinda need to understand that banning HTML editing is kinda a deal breaker for allot of users. While the name change is annoying enough, this is gonna be the thing that will drive allot of users away.

As for the customizable tools they promised to replace html editing, they have to understand that in order to make something that offers even half the freedom that HTML editing offers, they're going to have to construct one hell of a site editor (maybe not as intensive as Joomla, but close). That's going to take allot of time and effort on their behalf. Are they really up for that?
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
This space for rent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:53PM
ksteak at 9:30AM, May 15, 2011
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As it is the preview is a decent enough place to upload comics to. The problem is though a lot of people are looking for a host, not a place to upload comics to. I wonder if Wowio recognizes the difference between the two.

I'm curious also to see what readers reactions to it would be. The feature set for readers is something like: comments. email alerts. favorite. share. recommend. like. (are those last five the same thing, or is it just me? And the difference between favorite and recommend is confusing.) profile with bio, friends, video linking, trophies.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:24PM
Salsa at 4:48PM, May 15, 2011
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Okay, this has got me annoyed. How hard can it honestly be to make a parser that removes the
and
tags and everything in between? I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but they won't budge on custom HTML because of malware. HTML is a markup language. It, in conjunction with CSS, just defines the look of content. There are some neat hacks you can do with them to get some nice menus (like here), but it's the browser that has to do most of the heavy lifting. It's executables that they are worried about. That means scripts, whether they are in files or tags, and you have to have a
and
pair to make the script work in an HTML file! All they have to do for files is look at the file extension and refuse to upload it if the extension isn't one of the approved file types.

If I'm wrong, well I'll eat my crow and not complain, but I don't think I am. I'd also like to say this is in no way directed at our awesome admins. This is directed at the guy who'd doing his best to impersonate an immovable object, and that is going to cost a lot of creators, and the people who read their stuff.
RAGE!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:19PM
lefarce at 12:42AM, May 16, 2011
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Someone
stuff about converting files to PNG to “save on server space”

i want you all to consider that these peoples professions happen to be designing sites, for the internet. good god, ya'll

Filthy Assitant.png
i like to imagine at DD they just have a big wheel with 3 segments, and on the top one is like “move”, “convert”, “add”, “remove”, the middle is “images”, “servers”, “advertisements”, and the last is “to PNGs”, “again”, “completely”, etc
and they just spin and do whatever it lands on
i cant wait until they try to convert servers to png
or move images completely

seriously, i'm reeling at this png thing, i still can't believe that's real. that actually happened.

Filthy Assistant 12:43 am
assitant

Lefarce 12:43 am
don't care
furthermore, i'm converting your name to a .png

Filthy Assistant 12:43 am
how dare you
WHAT

Lefarce 12:43 am
sorry but it's too many characters too long

Lefarce 12:43 am
unicode takes up too much server space, mister
do you have any idea how many bits are in a letter!? THOSE ADD UP!

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:34PM
Tim Wellman at 1:00AM, May 16, 2011
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I don't have a big problem with the layout tools now… you can do almost the same as rawHTML, but the banner placements are still a problem.

My major problem at this point is no stats page… we rely on stats when selling ad banner space (and for the ego boost).

Still, overall, I think we've come a long way from what Wowio thought we would settle for in the beginning. But, we definitely need a stats page.

No one has really talked about all the ad banners Wowio is plastering the webcomic pages with, and that's the reason I would not use The Duck as a primary host.

Time Girls was going to be a Featured comic before I removed it (according to Oz in a post he made) and it was a top 50 comic here. Even after the concessions gained, I still wouldn't put Time Girls back on The Duck with all those ads and popups and stuff. Wowio doesn't seem to understand that we comic artists and creators have an audience to please… it's not just some egotistical website or blog, we have actual audiences, and many times with newer readers, they're going to be reading dozens of pages… that's dozen's of pages of ads… 3 ads a page, including popups and Flash (and whatever gets embedded in the png images)… I certainly wouldn't wade through that mess just to read a web comic, and I wouldn't put my audience through that either.


The thing is, and this is important, perhaps the most important thing of all…

We're fighting Wowio just to get back to where we are right now. Nothing more, we're asking nothing at all, no additions, nothing. We're fighting just to try to keep what we have. And no matter how Wowio spins things, we're right. They didn't have to buy DD, we didn't ask them to. We just wanted to be left alone with what we had. Yes, maybe a faster server, but nothing more. Wowio's ‘improvements’ have taken away most of the things we had… we just want what we had. That's not being unfair or angry… just let us have what we have right now. Why would you want to take those things away? Those things made DD great, the biggest webcomics host on the net… why did you think you could ‘improve’ things by destroying the site? Stop experimenting with DD, we're not lab mice… we're the only reason anyone visits the site and you need to listen to us, not yell at us through 2nd-hand messages.

I can't thank Wowio for changing the webcomic site designs… they took away all freedom of design to begin with, then gave a little bit back. That's not praise-worthy, that's how dictatorships work, take away everything, then give a little back. But it seems that's how they've decided to work… take away everything, then give a little back to make it seem like they're trying to help us. Just remember, THEY took everything away… WE'RE trying to get back to just where we are right now. The war continues…
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:30PM
ozoneocean at 1:03AM, May 16, 2011
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lefarce
Someone
stuff about converting files to PNG to “save on server space”
Actually, the idea behind the PNG thing was the mobile version of the site.
Nothing to do with space saving.
The idea is that PNG is the standard format for mobile devices so they may as well have images standardised as PNGs throughout the entire site… The normal version of it.

Yes, that is amazingly, incredibly, soooooper dooper enormously flawed, and yes all along Skool and I have told the people involved time and again about the size thing, but they said it'd be ok.
We're STILL talking to them about the size thing.



I think the problem is that they may be thinking of the setup like a news blog site or something like that where all content is simply standardised across the whole thing- all text styles are the same, colours are the same and all images fit into a limited set of dimensions (depending on where they go) and they're all fairly small (even feature images), so the lack of compression in 24 bit PNGs is never really an issue there.

But of course DD is VERY different.

Tim Wellman
Still, overall, I think we've come a long way from what Wowio thought we would settle for in the beginning. But, we definitely need a stats page.
Not really Tim.
The editing tools were slated from the beginning. The schedule they're working at though meant that the site got put up as it was for bug testing etc before some of the other features were done.
The Stats page is a perfect example of that! The designs for it are all ready, Skool and I saw different versions of those months ago, but other aspects are taking priority- The layout editing for example, which is only in its most basic prototype version right now.

The ONLY single one solitary change that the designers have made is the inclusion of linking banners, which I rode them HARD about from the beginning, and are still completely unsatisfactory, but at least they've been added.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
lefarce at 1:15AM, May 16, 2011
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So Tim is a Wowio apologist now? fascinating

Someone
Actually, the idea behind the PNG thing was the mobile version of the site.

Someone posted that it was to save space and I didn't feel like reading all these walls of text to find out where it originated. But yeah, it's still incredibly stupid and I'm stumped how everyone seems to realize this but Wowio.

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:34PM
ksteak at 1:15AM, May 16, 2011
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ozoneocean
Yes, that is amazingly, incredibly, soooooper dooper enormously flawed, and yes all along Skool and I have told the people involved time and again about the size thing, but they said it'd be ok.
We're STILL talking to them about the size thing.


But… With pngs coming out at the size they are, any mobile would run out of ram to display the page anyway.

Flawed coders are flawed.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:24PM
ozoneocean at 1:30AM, May 16, 2011
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ksteak
But… With pngs coming out at the size they are, any mobile would run out of ram to display the page anyway.
I think the main issue would be usage caps on some plans and download speeds on congested mobile networks… But yeah, pages full of bloated 24 bit PNGs won't load very well.

lefarce
Someone posted that it was to save space and I didn't feel like reading all these walls of text to find out where it originated. But yeah, it's still incredibly stupid and I'm stumped how everyone seems to realize this but Wowio.
There's a bit of crossed communication:
-Originally all of those massive images that noob users upload in the wrong formats and the wrong sizes for the web would be converted to something at a more sensible file size- JPG would've been the best choice for oversized offerings. That was back in the planning stages.

-SINCE then, they're not worrying about file sizes anymore because the images are being hosted on the Amazon cloud service and aren't on our old shitty webhost anymore. SO Lawrence and Dan have forgoten about any file size issues and are only thinking in terms of mobile sites.

They're programmers, not graphic designers, they are exceptionally good at programming, but have very limited understanding of the net as a comic artist or graphic designer sees it.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
skoolmunkee at 4:35AM, May 16, 2011
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Guys, guys,

I think we are missing the point here.

TIM WELLMAN HAD A TOP 50 COMIC. (Actually the last time he gave us numbers in this thread it was #65 overall, but hey close enough right?) Just you know, in case you missed his constant repetition.

Also, get off your high horse. You bitched and moaned, increasingly tried to stir up shit, didn't actually contribute to the constructive feedback going on, took your toys and stomped off saying you were leaving forever, then you came back all friendly and acting like you had some part in effecting changes that WERE ALWAYS GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAY. GTFO you ass. I have no patience for you any more.

All the rest of my vitriol has been omitted.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:44PM
Locoma at 6:28AM, May 16, 2011
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skoolmunkee
All the rest of my vitriol has been omitted.


You mean “edited”? XD
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:38PM
darth_paul at 8:48AM, May 16, 2011
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ksteak
As it is the preview is a decent enough place to upload comics to. The problem is though a lot of people are looking for a host, not a place to upload comics to. I wonder if Wowio recognizes the difference between the two.

I'm curious also to see what readers reactions to it would be. The feature set for readers is something like: comments. email alerts. favorite. share. recommend. like. (are those last five the same thing, or is it just me? And the difference between favorite and recommend is confusing.) profile with bio, friends, video linking, trophies.

I got confused between “Favorite” and “Recommend” myself. Glad I'm not the only one. Mentioned it on the feedback, but it was explained to me that it was kind of the same as it is now, just in a different way and supposed to be easier, but I still like it how it is on this old site better, that's just me. It's not just a huge issue right now in the grand scheme of things with the coding issues and link exchanges which are taking higher precedence, but I can see how it might cause future confusion and problems to readers.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:08PM
ozoneocean at 8:56AM, May 16, 2011
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darth_paul
I got confused between “Favorite” and “Recommend” myself.
Me too! I told the guys that in person over Skype. Skool seemed to get it, but it didn't seem logical to me- not that our current method is that great either though.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
skoolmunkee at 11:04AM, May 16, 2011
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Locoma
You mean “edited”? XD

Nah it was edited for spelling.


I thought I replied to the favorites/recommends thing, but now I remember that was last night and the site was slow and I didn't have the patience to keep trying to submit it. So… now I have to retype the whole thing I guess. Time-saving! That's me. :]

The feature set for readers is something like: comments. email alerts. favorite. share. recommend. like.

Comments: You can comment all OVER the site now, on tutorials and newsposts and podcasts and everything! :D Yaaaaay, one of my favorite things about the new site.

email alerts: This sends you an email when a comic you've earmarked for that service, updates. So you can keep a closer track on it.

Share: Various doodads for facebook, twitter and so on. These generate links etc. that you can post out into social media.

Like: I'm not sure what function this actually serves, it's basically just a popularity thing. Once you like something you can't unlike it (apparently), and you can only like a comic once. I haven't bothered to check yet whether you can like individual pages, but I don't think so. I think it all just counts toward the main comic.

Favorites: Puts the comic on your favorites list so you can follow it internally, like it does now. No change really. (Also lets you “duckmark” it, with set/go, which is convenient.) People's favorites are private.

Recommend: This is a public “favorites” list which shows up on your profile. It is independent to favoriting now. You don't necessarily have to favorite something to recommend it any more. I know in many cases you WILL want them to overlap, but there are some cases where you might not. Mainly, if you are recommending a comic that may not update any more, or that you prefer to follow in RSS or something, but don't want it cluttering up your Favorites list. Moving it to the top bar I think also makes it more obvious how to do that function, whereas before it was hidden in “manage favorites.”


And it appears they haven't implemented an rss feed for comics, I put in a Feedback thing about that. Hopefully it's easy enough to do, because I know people use it.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:44PM
lefarce at 11:26AM, May 16, 2011
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skoolmunkee
Guys, guys,

I think we are missing the point here.

TIM WELLMAN HAD A TOP 50 COMIC. (Actually the last time he gave us numbers in this thread it was #65 overall, but hey close enough right?) Just you know, in case you missed his constant repetition.

Also, get off your high horse. You bitched and moaned, increasingly tried to stir up shit, didn't actually contribute to the constructive feedback going on, took your toys and stomped off saying you were leaving forever, then you came back all friendly and acting like you had some part in effecting changes that WERE ALWAYS GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAY. GTFO you ass. I have no patience for you any more.

All the rest of my vitriol has been omitted.


Jesus Christ, I don't like Tim anymore than you do, but you're an admin for fuck's sake. You shouldn't tell a user to “get the fuck out”, publicly no less.

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:34PM
ayesinback at 12:13PM, May 16, 2011
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Someone
I don't like Tim anymore than you do, but you're an admin for fuck's sake. You shouldn't tell a user to “get the fuck out”, publicly no less.
There's all kinds of shouldn'ts, and this one does not bother me.

I put it in the same category as the whiny kid in a store who's parent reasons, orders, pleads and then finally, volcanically, curses the kid out. It's usually loud and unpleasant for all.

if only the kid had shut up earlier.
under new management
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:14AM
skoolmunkee at 1:00PM, May 16, 2011
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lefarce
Jesus Christ, I don't like Tim anymore than you do, but you're an admin for fuck's sake. You shouldn't tell a user to “get the fuck out”, publicly no less.
Nothing says internet is serious business like slang acronyms!

If his feelings are hurt by A Person On The Internet (calling him out on his crap) then he has bigger problems than me saying something mildly inappropriate after getting tired of his dumb posts.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:44PM
lefarce at 2:27PM, May 16, 2011
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skoolmunkee
lefarce
Jesus Christ, I don't like Tim anymore than you do, but you're an admin for fuck's sake. You shouldn't tell a user to “get the fuck out”, publicly no less.
Nothing says internet is serious business like slang acronyms!

If his feelings are hurt by A Person On The Internet (calling him out on his crap) then he has bigger problems than me saying something mildly inappropriate after getting tired of his dumb posts.

They're serious when you're using them in an inflammatory and serious manner, yes.

And silly me, I thought being a good admin and running a successful website didn't entail telling users to fuck off at every opportunity. Tim is a little shit, but you guys are setting a pretty bad example too.


 
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:34PM
skoolmunkee at 4:13PM, May 16, 2011
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lefarce
They're serious when you're using them in an inflammatory and serious manner, yes.

And silly me, I thought being a good admin and running a successful website didn't entail telling users to fuck off at every opportunity. Tim is a little shit, but you guys are setting a pretty bad example too.

If I was serious I wouldn't have said “GTFO,” I would have used proper language. If DD had a get out frog I would have used that. And if I were serious-serious I could have just forum banned him.

If you've been reading this thread you'll know that we spent a lot of time replying normally to him even as he got more inflammatory and appeared not to be reading our replies at all. So I don't know where you're getting this “at every opportunity” from. I'm an admin, but I have a limit to the crap I'll tolerate and Tim went over it. I don't have to sit here and put up with any more of that than I want to. I can let him spew whatever stuff he likes, even about how how Oz and I are angling for Wowio jobs and we're in Wowio's pockets and how Wowio is going to fire us, but I am NOT letting him act like he did and then waltz back and pretend like he participated positively and helped achieve something. After people called him out the first time, he just did it again. In a way he was taking credit from me and oz, even, since we're the ones who have been lobbying for some of the stuff that has been/will be put in even before anything was made known to the public.

And that is way too much of my time spent on the guy.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:44PM
Skullbie at 4:40PM, May 16, 2011
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Tim Wellman
That's not praise-worthy, that's how dictatorships work, take away everything, then give a little back. But it seems that's how they've decided to work… take away everything, then give a little back to make it seem like they're trying to help us. Just remember, THEY took everything away… WE'RE trying to get back to just where we are right now. The war continues…
Tim Wellman
The war continues…
Tim Wellman
The war continues…
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:48PM
Nicotine at 5:30PM, May 16, 2011
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(…or we could just leave Tim to his own devices and quit derailing the thread. It would've done to just PQ him. =_=)

Any word on when the switch-over is going to happen? Or the to-do list that went AWOL?

Also, I don't know if anyone has this problem, but on my Mac (when using Safari), the links to the Forums, Tutorials, ect on the top of the front page are hard to click; there's only a very small sliver of space to click. Granted, it is the preview site so maybe things aren't compatible with all systems/browsers?
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:16PM
ozoneocean at 9:32PM, May 16, 2011
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Nicotine
\r we could just leave Tim to his own devices and quit derailing the thread. It would've done to just PQ him. =_=
I feel Skool is perfectly ok in venting, as are we all, equally. Le Farce reprimands for her for doing so are base hypocrisy- quite offensively so.
_______________

Could you please take a screenshot of your issue with the nav bar in Safari?
There shouldn't normally be an issue there since our programmers and designers are Mac people. They would've checked the site extensively on Macs all through the Wowio offices.

Your issue sounds like what can sometimes happen when the font size or the font style is set to be specified by the browser rather than the site. Have you got any settings like that in your browser properties?
I know I've had that issue myself on a number of devices.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
lefarce at 10:04PM, May 16, 2011
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skoolmunkee
lefarce
They're serious when you're using them in an inflammatory and serious manner, yes.

And silly me, I thought being a good admin and running a successful website didn't entail telling users to fuck off at every opportunity. Tim is a little shit, but you guys are setting a pretty bad example too.

If I was serious I wouldn't have said "GTFO,


Please re-read your post and tell me that if I wrote it I wouldn't be getting a slap on the wrist. Let me know because I want to make sure I know exactly where the line in the sand is. tia

If you want to keep throwing that “it was all a joke, the whole time!” card at me, maybe it's you who should take your bag of bullshit and GTFO. you backpedal any faster you gonna moonwalk right through that wall

Someone
I feel Skool is perfectly ok in venting, as are we all, equally.

Oh ok, so it is allowed to tell users directly how much we despise them. Gotcha, I thought the rules would have been amended or something. Also if we're all entitled to vent, why are we telling Tim to shut up? Like, I get that he's a total lunatic and not worth anyones time, but this speaks a lot about your views on equality and hypocrisy.

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:34PM
ozoneocean at 10:22PM, May 16, 2011
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lefarce
>_____<
Oh STFUYAPOSAFOWDY?Y BCBWWPAGGAPOBASIU!

That's a joke. :)




or is it? O_O

Smiley face says yes.
———————–

We're gonna have a big serious conference call with Lawrence, Dan and Kinh tonight! Anything people think we should bring up?
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
lefarce at 10:24PM, May 16, 2011
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ozoneocean
POBASIU!


I'm pretty sure this is a Pokemon, can anyone confirm?

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:34PM
Niccea at 10:42PM, May 16, 2011
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There has been a lot said about HTML but none said about the home page feature. I actually use it to show the chapter list and show off awards. There has been nothing about what will become of this. (So that might be something to talk about OZ)

We are still missing the darn checklist about what features are being worked on so we aren't worrying about things being dropped.

Suggestion: Drop the HTML reply format and return to BBCode (it is less of a hassle). Or at least you hit on the total unfunctionality of it.

last edited on July 14, 2011 2:15PM
Genejoke at 11:13PM, May 16, 2011
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lefarce
ozoneocean
POBASIU!


I'm pretty sure this is a Pokemon, can anyone confirm?

I thought it was a type of monkey.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:34PM
skoolmunkee at 11:54PM, May 16, 2011
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Nicotine
Any word on when the switch-over is going to happen? Or the to-do list that went AWOL?
I sent an email over the weekend reminding them about that, but haven't heard back yet. I can ask again in this meeting today. (so many meetings…)

Niccea
Suggestion: Drop the HTML reply format and return to BBCode (it is less of a hassle). Or at least you hit on the total unfunctionality of it.
We've both suggested this to them too, to just ditch it. We'll bring this up in the meeting too. And the Homepages (which I had thought were coming, but want to make sure now.) Although, depending on what they include in the regular page features, you might not need the homepage for those things any more.


Off to work!
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:44PM
Ironscarf at 2:54AM, May 17, 2011
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ozoneocean
We're gonna have a big serious conference call with Lawrence, Dan and Kinh tonight! Anything people think we should bring up?

You could bring up every other webcomic host and why they don't seem to have a problem offering html access?
As sure as I believe there's a heaven above, Ozone,
I know there's something much more,
Something even non-believers can believe in.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:03PM

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