I must admit I've always half believed such things are probably happening - maybe not in the basement of a pizzeria, but happening somewhere. But the events that have taken place in the past year or two with Epstein and the just-arrested Maxwell and their perverse activities, and connection to so many rich elites are quite shocking. It really is like something out of a movie, book or comic.

In the fictional version, it would all lead to some kind of literal devil-or-chthulhu worship. But even without that angle, it's insanely creepy.

There's been stuff like this going on forever I'd imagine. There are sinister things talked about with the Church of Scientology, though I don't think there's been much really exposed there (as far as I know).

Ridiculous amounts of money in some peoples' hands is going to lead to stuff like this, maybe. When people have the resources to indulge their every whim, shit's gonna get dark.

Can stuff like this be kept secret forever, though? I've always thought that was the downfall of most conspiracies: secrets on that level would have to be exposed eventually! SOMEONE has to eventually spill the beans.

It's not really a matter of keeping it a secret though. These things are always known about and tolerated until there is some major shift that means they are no longer to be tolerated.

I heard in about 1991 from a music industry insider that Jimmy Saville was a massive paedophile and everybody in the media knew about it. An open secret if you like hinted at by John Lydon in a famous interview that ended his media career in the UK. Very many years later it turned out to be true but of course, nobody in the media suspected a thing! That's the same media who decided he wasn't a safe pair of hands to present Children In Need.

The danger is not secret conspiracies, but mass self serving complacency combined with public disinterest.

That's a good point. If people are determined to know something, cracks in the conspiracy will be found by someone.

Ironscarf wrote:
It's not really a matter of keeping it a secret though. These things are always known about and tolerated until there is some major shift that means they are no longer to be tolerated.

I heard in about 1991 from a music industry insider that Jimmy Saville was a massive paedophile and everybody in the media knew about it. An open secret if you like hinted at by John Lydon in a famous interview that ended his media career in the UK. Very many years later it turned out to be true but of course, nobody in the media suspected a thing! That's the same media who decided he wasn't a safe pair of hands to present Children In Need.

The danger is not secret conspiracies, but mass self serving complacency combined with public disinterest.

This exactly. complacency and power to abuse. people claim to be up in arms but unless it affects them directly they don't make any real effort. After the Prince Andrew interview about his connections with Epstein there was some royal media relations type person in a group interview on daytime TV trying to justify the things he was accused of. Apparently a middle aged man having sex with a 14 year old isn't paedophilia or rape, but should just be a little frowned upon but it's understandable cos men have urges or something. She came out with some very entitled bullshit that's for sure, even dismissing the claims the girls were drugged and forced into the sex trade.

I don't think there has to be any “secret cabal”. People just invent extra connections and see patterns that aren't there while ignoring the obvious. There are only two things happening here which always happen:

1.Rich people with power like to indulge their desires and because they have the means this is possible.
2. People in positions of power over others will often abuse that power in order to satisfy desires.

People in those positions don't always abuse their power in that way but they can so you should suspect them.

I know that powerful politicians were known to have lovers but it was never reported until the very late 20th century. Those things were unseemly for a paper to report on until then. That was definitely a different time and attitude towards people’s personal lives. Now, we have paparazzi everywhere and it’s hard to keep a secret. Even now there are sex clubs where people can swap and enjoy their favorite kinks. I’m not sure how the privacy is kept at these places.

I would imagine that some of the friends of Epstein knew that he liked young girls and were more concerned with how much money he could contribute to their future campaigns. Everyone has something to hide; people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Still, the more people know, the more is the chance of things going public.

I personally don’t think that a huge group of powerful people could organize a mass trading and raping of people. Then again, powerful people have been known to rape and pillage the less powerful all the time.

ozoneocean wrote:
I don't think there has to be any “secret cabal”. People just invent extra connections and see patterns that aren't there while ignoring the obvious. There are only two things happening here which always happen:

1.Rich people with power like to indulge their desires and because they have the means this is possible.
2. People in positions of power over others will often abuse that power in order to satisfy desires.

People in those positions don't always abuse their power in that way but they can so you should suspect them.

You forgot two other elements in my opinion:
3. Some people with lower resources are envious and often eager to satisfy desires of richer people, to fuel their own hope / ambitions. So richer people assume that 1. they do a good thing, and that 2. everyone has the same motives (and most often, cases get out become victims actually did not).
4. People with clear factual knowledge of events are generally socially threatened to expose cases, so only rumors can circulate. And rumors are just that, rumors. Rich people circles is like any other circle, it's full of lies and political games to kill opponents. Eventually, when cases get out, unchecked rumors translate into “they all knew it and never said a thing” for us!