^ y'know what, that's true. They're not really edgy 13 year olds. They just write the way they think intellectual people talk, without realizing most people with actual wit cut to the chase. These read like articles that need to pad out the word count so they dither around the point. Which is why it reminds me of my own cringey teenage writing in school! (I found some old homework, I know.)

Anyhow, the guys who write there almost certainly have their own comic here. At this point people only bring up DD if they have had some sort of personal experience with the site. Especially if you have a comic that's entirely a joke on DD that exists just to be bad, and you can write your own BWW article for it just to boost it.

But can we chill with the Tapas/Webtoons hate around here guys? It's not a good look. The companies themselves deserve criticism for sure but it's gone beyond that to sounding like sour grapes. Telling successful comics we don't want them around is exactly why successful comics leave the moment they get, well, success. I know that's not what you're saying, but to them, that's what you're saying.

Amelius wrote:

But can we chill with the Tapas/Webtoons hate around here guys? It's not a good look. The companies themselves deserve criticism for sure but it's gone beyond that to sounding like sour grapes. Telling successful comics we don't want them around is exactly why successful comics leave the moment they get, well, success. I know that's not what you're saying, but to them, that's what you're saying.

Good point. While we're at it, can we chill with the Bad Webcomics Wiki hate?

Well, I can't speak for everyone here, but I can personally assure anyone of the Bad Webcomics Wiki, or any user of any other plattform, reading this thread that I haven't been hating one bit, just humouring like I usually do. I wasn't even offended by BWW's using Drunk Duck equal bad webcomicker criteria, I just thought it was amusing and decided to humour it a bit.

Though it was a bit mean of me to call their website crappy, and for that I apologize. Don't take anything I say here seriously people of BWW, I'm just clowning. I am the clown of Drunk Duck🤡🤡🤡

And overall I agree. We shouldn't turn this into a we against them kind of thing. It is the same attitude that has killed open discorse on the internet and turned everything into an extremist paradise. Let's not go down that path people. Let's not lose our cool on this site.

Amelius wrote:


Anyhow, the guys who write there almost certainly have their own comic here. At this point people only bring up DD if they have had some sort of personal experience with the site. Especially if you have a comic that's entirely a joke on DD that exists just to be bad, and you can write your own BWW article for it just to boost it.

This was a person who had a comic here and did precisely this. Pretty much lying and when caught lashing out and being pretty nasty. BWW had a big write up about him and a really damning but reasonable review with linked images. It was actually one of the best reviews on the site.

As for Webtoons and Tapas, my work isn't welcome for theme, adult content and medium. Wonderful hard working creators over there who really believe in their comics and try to encourage others. But my usual NSFW weirdness just isn't welcome.

bravo1102 wrote:

As for Webtoons and Tapas, my work isn't welcome for theme, adult content and medium. Wonderful hard working creators over there who really believe in their comics and try to encourage others. But my usual NSFW weirdness just isn't welcome.

But you will always be a rockstar at what you're doing here on DD, Bravo:) At least to me you always will;)

“Or else they're using the BurgerKing sites like Webtoons and Tapass and imagining they understand anything about webcomiccing… Pah-leeeese… It's like a 13 year old trying to tell you what's cool and what's not. ”


BurgerKing sites? What?

paneltastic wrote:
“Or else they're using the BurgerKing sites like Webtoons and Tapass and imagining they understand anything about webcomiccing… Pah-leeeese… It's like a 13 year old trying to tell you what's cool and what's not. ”


BurgerKing sites? What?

Sites that mass produce webcomics, but some how comes in second place in quality, quantity and relies solely style they aped.

Furwerk studio wrote:

paneltastic wrote:
“Or else they're using the BurgerKing sites like Webtoons and Tapass and imagining they understand anything about webcomiccing… Pah-leeeese… It's like a 13 year old trying to tell you what's cool and what's not. ”


BurgerKing sites? What?

Sites that mass produce webcomics, but some how comes in second place in quality, quantity and relies solely style they aped.

They might have quantity because everyone wants to be popular and they think success is being on the popular site as opposed to realizing it's just mass merchandise. The same half dozen comics done by several hundred creators with as much variety as that Burger King burger compared to the handcrafted beef burger you get in your local diner here in NJ. And onion rings with the fries and the NJ burger with fried egg and pork roll. Wow. Similar price too.

Oh and boobs. Several of the best manga/anime ever just wouldn't be welcome on Webtoons and Tapas.

bravo1102 wrote:
Oh and boobs. Several of t manga/anime ever just wouldn't be welcome on Webtoons and Tapas.

Boobs, blood and villains.

These trifecta of manga and 90's comics would never fly on Tapas.

Furwerk studio wrote:

bravo1102 wrote:
Oh and boobs. Several of t manga/anime ever just wouldn't be welcome on Webtoons and Tapas.

Boobs, blood and villains.

These trifecta of manga and 90's comics would never fly on Tapas.

1990s? Try Go Nagai wouldn't have a career. Lupin III wouldn't be there either.

bravo1102 wrote:

Furwerk studio wrote:

bravo1102 wrote:
Oh and boobs. Several of t manga/anime ever just wouldn't be welcome on Webtoons and Tapas.

Boobs, blood and villains.

These trifecta of manga and 90's comics would never fly on Tapas.

1990s? Try Go Nagai wouldn't have a career. Lupin III wouldn't be there either.

I was more referencing American comics from the 1990's, comic medium from other countries seem to had tits, sec, blood and all of that fun stuff for decades. I love Italian comics due to marrying porn with adventure, manga always seem to have that dance with pissing of politicians with its “evil influence” from criticizing the government to thumbing their nose to censorship (tentacle porn came about as a means to by pass censorship). I could name more countries but my knowledge on their medium is limited and I am just letting other fill that in.

Wow… You guys really have Tapas Derangement Syndrome…

Nothing on there is “mass produced”, I don't know what possibly possessed you guys to make such a bogus statement, it's the same baseless hater mentality that I JUST criticized BWW for engaging in?

Webtoons site is labeled 13+ on their app, but they DO allow mature content and put a mature warning prompt on comics that aren't intended for children.

Boobs, blood and villains.

These trifecta of manga and 90's comics would never fly on Tapas

OBJECTION! There's so many comics there that have blood in the thumbnail alone. Everything about your statement is just flat out incorrect.

Tapas has an entire Mature section, the desktop version is rated 17+. The only reason that Tapas has ever done censor crackdowns is because of APPLE. It always has been. Every time a site is coming down on NSFW content it's because of No-Fapple telling them they will remove the app from their store, and since Tapas depends on being an APP for their business model…?
And artists are good at getting around any censoring that does happen by posting their NSFW to Patreon instead of crying about it. But considering what I HAVE seen uncensored on both those sites, it's a gotta be a pretty loose policy.

You mean I actually have to edit my content, put up a patreon paywall?

Don't know sounds too much like work, rather just complain about it on an internet forum. Just be setting myself up to be the next creator kicked off the site. Rather just complain than actually put something out there knowing full well it's doomed. Rsther complain about the possibility of being hurt not being available than actually being hurt.

I rather like furthering my image as a wretched outcast not welcome with the popular and well groomed folks like over on Tapas.

Others might be able to do it, but not me. So have at it folks and I'll be cheering for you from the sidelines.

Like I'm fine with complaining, you just gotta realize it makes our site look hostile to creators when you crap all over comics that are:
A: Made to look professional
B: Clearly appeal to a female audience
C: Have more readers in 1 day than this entire site gets in a week

THAT is SOUR GRAPES.
I said it was Tapas Derangment Syndrome because it doesn't matter what their comics look like, you all have this fantasy version of it in your head, a strawman you can take turns beating. You've decided Tapas is enemy #1 and instead of doing things to improve our site like overhaul the stupid looking design and the difficult reader interface… ya do nothing but jeer other sites and act like out-of-touch curmudgeons because it's easier to do than find someone who will fix this crap.

And I am not ungrateful for the upgrades we HAVE had, but I have said and will continue to say that DD needs a massive makeover, and if you want to show those sites how you respect artists the right way then freakin' SHOW THEM HOW. Because right now we have an ugly site with TINY thumbnails, a flotsam of dead comics in quail's random, no ability for upward momentum for ANY of the fantastic comics on this site, and the social circle here is a clique of like-minded, Libertarian-right leaning folks who look down on anyone who's not into sex. As one of those “just not into it” people, this forum has felt massively unwelcome and deeply uncomfortable for me.

But I guess my opinions don't matter and they never have. If I don't like it I can go elsewhere huh?

I rather like furthering my image as a wretched outcast not welcome with the popular and well groomed folks like over on Tapas.

This is a terrible attitude to have for someone I've always thought was pretty talented and unique though? I'm sorry but is the only metric of success here measured by mega-popularity? Because “well groomed” only describes the comics that are made by artists in Tapas and Webtoons Originals program, the teams who make the professional manhwa that is the mainstay of the site. What you're saying to me is that Evil Dead should never have been released to theaters because Raiders of the Lost Arc and Escape from New York were also in theaters and had big marquees.

You're comfortable in the rut you're in here is what I'm hearing and if that's the case, that's fine. Not everyone wants the same thing when they create and put things into the world. (Honestly, the idea of actual real popularity terrifies me.)

But nobody there is so up their own @S$ they can't appreciate that an artist making his webcomic by himself isn't going to have the same polished and consistent output as the artists that Tapas promoted to their Originals program and hired a team to help them? You do realize comics like ours are hosted there too? Does DD's main page reflect everything that's here? If you actually tried using Tapas' search function instead of griping at what's on the main page, you'd find it's superior to ours in every way at finding the content you WANT to find. But I guess reading comics on Tapas makes me some kind of backstabber or something?

Just because I've been loyal to DD for 18 years doesn't mean I'm going to blow smoke up it's butt and say everything is perfect or hold back my criticism. I'm really unhappy with the site and have been feeling bitter about it for years now, I have not been quiet about this fact, and it's really the negativity and deflection and pretending everything here is perfect that is making me lose hope that things will ever improve.

Why should they when the community is full of people who WANT people to not like their work and are proud of that? When they complain about people who went to popular sites because all the eyes are there instead of staying here and having either no readers or fair-weather fans that only care as long as you're coming over to their work too?

Finally, I really mislike the tone of “patreon paywall” there as if artists who do that are somehow bilking their readers out of money, which is a very BWW stance for someone who was upset to see our site blasted there. Most of the time offering uncensored is a courtesy to people who want to read a comic without the hardcore content they can't handle?
Like I said, the “censored” stuff I've seen still included SOMEONE GETTING SPLIT IN HALF, I don't think the impact was lost just because they obscured some of the guts.

Is it better to host somewhere where you don't have to compromise? Absolutely. And I'm not arguing otherwise. But the advantages of DD right now is something only people who have lived here can appreciate, and something people who are too toxic to exist in other communities can take advantage of.

Finally got you out of that shell. I called you out, you not only called my bluff but raised and bested me.

Thanks for the wake up call. Anyone reading this – go back and read Amelius' post. Let it sink in and think about it. Sounds like a call to action for some change.

Gives me some things to think about.

Amelius wrote:


THAT is SOUR GRAPES.
I said it was Tapas Derangment Syndrome because it doesn't matter what their comics look like, you all have this fantasy version of it in your head, a strawman you can take turns beating. You've decided Tapas is enemy #1 and instead of doing things to improve our site like overhaul the stupid looking design and the difficult reader interface… ya do nothing but jeer other sites and act like out-of-touch curmudgeons because it's easier to do than find someone who will fix this crap.

And I am not ungrateful for the upgrades we HAVE had, but I have said and will continue to say that DD needs a massive makeover, and if you want to show those sites how you respect artists the right way then freakin' SHOW THEM HOW. Because right now we have an ugly site with TINY thumbnails, a flotsam of dead comics in quail's random, no ability for upward momentum for ANY of the fantastic comics on this site, and the social circle here is a clique of like-minded, Libertarian-right leaning folks who look down on anyone who's not into sex. As one of those “just not into it” people, this forum has felt massively unwelcome and deeply uncomfortable for me.

But I guess my opinions don't matter and they never have. If I don't like it I can go elsewhere huh?

You're entitled to insult everyone here, fair enough but I don't recognise any of this analysis.

The reason we haven't had a massive site update is purely financial. It's a one man show after all and I have no doubt Oz has already ploughed in more of his own money than any of us have a right to expect. I'm not sure what the libertarian right are but if this place was right leaning in any way then I for one would not be here. In any event, these issues have precious little to do with Tapas or whether individuals here like or dislike that site.

Certainly a lively discussion here! And that's a good thing, even if it has gotten heated.
I think everyone here is passionate about DD which is why they're forthright,
but please let's not insult anyone or get personal.

It's great that Amelius is critical of DD because it shows that she cares about the site enough to evaluate it.
Bravo and Ironscarf care just as much.



Where do we stand on a makeover:
We were planning a full site upgrade and makeover but had to wait for our programmer Alexey to evaluate costs and work out timelines and give us quotes.
Things have gotten in the way because of CoVid, plus he has bad health issues requiring regular trips to the hospital, and he lives in Russia.
I'm also not certain of the funding for that. It's very expensive.


The backup plan:
-This will mainly be cosmetic: changing colours, the look and layout of the front page and other site forms without hacking the coding too much. But hopefully using larger thubmnails etc
-If Alexey can't do it I'll just have to go through UpWork and hire a team.
-For funding we have $600 before tax from the anthology sale. That won't take us far though so I'll calculate profit the site has made from advertising and Patreon (after site costs), and put all that towards it plus my own money.

The only hold up is that I like to use Alexey because he has experience with the site and the coding and he cares about it. He's just super slow to get back to me…

Amelius wrote:

Webtoons site is labeled 13+ on their app, but they DO allow mature content and put a mature warning prompt on comics that aren't intended for children.

They do allow mature content, but they do not allow any nudity and sex in comics. I remember creating account months ago, reading upload policy and leaving forever the same day.

Wildcat Arren wrote:

Amelius wrote:

Webtoons site is labeled 13+ on their app, but they DO allow mature content and put a mature warning prompt on comics that aren't intended for children.

They do allow mature content, but they do not allow any nudity and sex in comics. I remember creating account months ago, reading upload policy and leaving forever the same day.

Same here, except I read the policy before creating the account.

Social circle here is a clique of like-minded, Libertarian-right leaning folks who look down on anyone who's not into sex

I know that was just a rant Amelius but I don't like this bit… Most of us are leftwing here and not libertarian. - but we don't have any issues with those who are. All political views are fine and people can think what they like.
Also we don't look down on people who aren't into sex. we are against those who are out to actively censor or eliminate it though.