My condolences guys 😓

We all know Trump is pretty shit, I think even people who support him are aware of that. But the bigger issue is his hangers on… Like antivaxers, anti abortion, anti science, magical thinkers etc, that's just so dangerous.

but hey, people will stop eating dogs, right?

The following statement is factitious and should not be confused with fact: I heard that are when cancelling the infamous Coney Island Hot Dog Eating Contest just in case.

And if Trump and MAGA have their way they will drag the rest of the world after them.

Autocratic theocracy, next step get rid of that two term limit so Trump remains the emperor ever after. Handmaid's Tale meets Idiocracy part 2: The Revenge of the Angry White Male.

Meh, here in Italy we had Berlusconi, who was a somewhat Trumplike character. He was elected many times as premier, some of his supported loved him beyond rational appreciation, it was very much an emotional thing; now that he is dead we have Meloni (a very right wing politician) who won the elections by a big mayority (partly because the left broke in 3 parts, but still), and she isn't even the worse because her vicepremier is Salvini, who is a lunatic (and very much a Trump admirer, he campaigned wearing a MAGA hat).

The problem isn't just Trump or the others, but the fact that there are many people who like them and they like them BECAUSE they are deranged.

/end political rant.

PS: I suspect the most fucked ones are the Ukrainians, however we shall see.

I stayed up into the wee hours of the morning watching as the election results were continually updated, and finally went to bed feeling physically sick; I got almost no sleep last night as I was consumed with grief and dread.

I'm not even scared for myself so much as I am for others. Being a white-skinned, blonde-haired, green-eyed, straight, cis-gendered Christian male, the worst case scenario for myself is my broke ass becoming even more broke now that Trump will impose even more tariffs, thus driving up the cost of everything even higher, while also raising our taxes again like he did last time, and driving us all into yet another recession like Republicans do. My mother will probably lose everything, as Social Security is literally her only source of income; at her age, in her health, and with her physical problems, she sure as hell can't work.

I'm more scared for my friends, colleagues, loved ones, acquaintances, and other people I know who are African-American, Asian-American, Latin-American; who are gay, lesbian, bi, pan, tran, aro/race; who are Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, agnostic, atheist; who are wheelchair-bound, bed-ridden, mentally ill, have emotional disorders, on the autism spectrum; who are women of all or none of the above . . . they have way more to lose than I do, they literally have everything to lose.

Ukraine will fight on and there are a few members of NATO who would sooner see mushroom clouds than Russia conquer Ukraine.

Already, a longtime Latinx friend/colleague of mine has dealt with harassment this morning from people telling him to go back where he came from. He came from Boston; an American city in an American state in the United States of America. And even so, his lineage traces back to Puerto Rico - an American territory.

People are often surprised that Americans would elect someone like Trump… twice now. I live in a country where the PM admires Trump, admires Putin and takes whatever he can from Putin's playbook to cement in his power for decades to come, with already what… 12-13 years in power behind him? In my experience the whole thing comes down to what story you sell the people. And in several countries or cultures… people already know the story they want to hear. There's some vague enemy, a “them” vs “us” we need to fight. We need to blame every problem on… What makes us great has nothing to do with our choices, we're already great because we were born here and being great is our birthright, so let's protect it from those f***ers who'd take it away… etc etc. That's all people want really. Getting validated in whatever metric they measure their own worth by and getting told that other people are at fault for everything going wrong. Trump actually managed to start a cult that believes he's some lone wolf taking down the fucking government, all while HE WAS THE PRESIDENT. That's how much people want to hear that story. And I'm sorry, but it looks like the other one's just not the kind of story his voters want to hear, at least not until an actual civil war or genocide happens on their soil.

I don't know what to say, I was prevented from voting because the people who was suppose to handle my registration botched it so badly but didn't tell me about it, found out when I tried to vote and was told I can't.
My mom was allowed to, we registered at the same time with the same guy but she was a republican and I am independent, and from what I heard people were kicking independents from the system.

Well, she voted Trump, kept telling me to vote Trump because she's mad at the assholes at the hospital, and the utterly horrible she worked with, but truth be told my heart wasn't in this.

I didn't want either one, I just wanted to say I am out, this is a sham, a novelty, the final act of converting sportsification of politics in America.

Right now I am on the streets, lowest of the low without any help and trying to scratch for survival, trying to make my art (comics, games) into a somewhat business so I can start clawing my way out on my own, hopefully, and all of this just left me utterly numb.

I kept rewriting a massive section because right now I am not in a good place mentally due to so much of my life being eaten up by trying to escape my mom's influences, but ensuring she is safe along with my cats before I break away and it is taking a heavy toll on me, politics right now is the farthest thing I am concerned with but like I said everyone made it into a sport, “we won,” “we lost” and the following lighting of cars on fire tends to cause trouble for people.

[EDIT: I want to add in I do prey and send well wishes to people who will be utterly fucked over putting a glorified gameshow host back into a seat of power, I feel utterly sick from this crap.)

bravo1102 wrote:
Ukraine will fight on and there are a few members of NATO who would sooner see mushroom clouds than Russia conquer Ukraine.

I hope so but from where I sit (Italy) NATO is very much “we will follow big bro USA” so I don't know.

Funny (Well, sort of:P). What happened to Kamala Harris here is pretty much what happened to Bernie Sanders in the 2020 US election (from what I understand).
Average voter going:
“Universal healthcare, raised minimum wage, free colleague! I like that! But I'm still gonna vote for the guy whos pretty much just saying ”Trump bad, vote for me“!”
I guess that really is just the world we live in. It can't be about things that makes sense, those things are too mundane and too boring. “US vs. THEM, now that is cool!!!” Well, I guess that makes sense when you think about it. It's easier and more fun to project your inner shit onto someone/something else, then being introspective about it and actually dealing with it yourself.

Actually, that wasn't the mentality of the average voter, that was the DNC screwing us over. In 2016, the average voter made it abundantly clear they wanted Bernie Sanders, but the DNC gave us Hillary Clinton instead, because she would have made history as America's first female President. In 2020, the average voter made it abundantly clear they still wanted Bernie Sanders, but the DNC gave us Joe Biden instead, because he was the veep of America's first black President in history.

The DNC also screwed us over again in 2024, because they didn't give us any else to choose from other than Biden again . . . and then when he bowed out, they just thrusted Kamala Harris into the race, and. . . . Yeah, not a good move.

I know Sanders was popular with some (many even), but he probably had a thing or two that divided people enough for them to feel they'd rather gamble it all on Clinton. At least that was my impression. It seems to me that a lot of the issues you have over there are sort of similar to ours. Only our PM and his gang of thieves got in power more than a decade ago and since then, they made sure to introduce religious programming and “traditional family values” to schools, strictly fine publishers and stores for displaying LGBT books near schools or churches, make most self-respecting teachers quit and leave, made the hospitals barely functional and placed all their pals in high positions. You should be aware of these things, because lawmakers in the US already tried to copy how we made transpeople's lives a living hell (they introduced this during COVID, when they gave themselves absolute power just approve laws in a day or two. A power they still haven't let go, now the excuse is the war in Ukraine).

So our problem is that the opposition never even comes close to win, because no one takes them seriously, lots of now smaller parties, none of them united, none of them have the support of the government-controlled media (they do get mocked and slandered of course if they appear on the radar) and quite honestly they don't even stand for anything. Maybe the far right ones, there was a year where they came in second during the elections. Probably the only reason why showing signs of homosexuality isn't punishable by prison here (yet). So the government made sure to take over everything. Non-stop propaganda billboards on every corner, the news are even worse sometimes than Fox according to many… The only mistake our PM could make is admit a mistake, which he never will, not even when he accidentally referenced COVID as a post 2022 event. For as long as they don't admit to making mistakes, they'll be around even if they'll just let Russia's tanks in to keep their lives and lifestyles. And our government basically blocks every aid package the EU would vote to Ukraine, because they want more money, but they don't want anyone in the EU to tell them how tyrannical some of their laws are.

I'm pretty sure that if Trump is looking for ideas on how to make certain people's lives more difficult, he'll know where to look. The thing that almost every year two candidates come this close to winning is probably a blessing for you. You get to hope it'll only be four years and you have good chances for that. To know that without a revolution of sort you'll never ever see that damn other party leave power… now that's what makes life miserable.

InkyMoondrop wrote:
I live in a country where the PM admires Trump, admires Putin and takes whatever he can from Putin's playbook to cement in his power for decades to come, with already what… 12-13 years in power behind him?

Hasn't Hungary always had a right leaning bent as a default? They were only communist because the Soviets took them after WW2 and ruled with an iron fist?
That's my impression anyway.

I love the country because it's the home of Hungarian hussars and all the style that goes with them ^_^

@Furwerk- that's bloody hard man :(

Hasn't Hungary always had a right leaning bent as a default? They were only communist because the Soviets took them after WW2 and ruled with an iron fist?
That's my impression anyway.

Our image of the left isn't reality-based anymore because all you can hear about is how “Sweden doesn't want our children protected from pedophiles” (so many things wrong with that sentence…) how Brussels and George Soros wants the “gender-cult” to brainwash our kids into sex change operations, etc. There are government-paid “influencers” repeating their words on social media.

Well, at least this thread is telling me that people are sensible on this site…

In my opinion, one dynamic (among many) that brought Trump to power was a wide-spread sentiment of political nihilism. As far as I can tell, significant swaths of the American electorate seem to believe that establishment politics are so corrupt and ineffectual that there is nothing left to do but burn the whole system down. Although MAGA people refer to themselves as Republicans, they hate old-guard, establishment Republicans just as much as they hate Democrats. And the entire Trump personality cult feeds right into that dynamic.

InkyMoondrop wrote:
Hungary people already accepted that those in power steal. The mistrust in us led us to believe that kinda everyone steals. Which is why we're much more likely to take issue with politicians getting away with it (as opposed to people like us) than with the act of stealing in general.

I'm not positive because I am an absolute outsider but from what I've learned from talking to people from other former Soviet Bloc countries (former Yugoslavian countries, Poland, Romania…) there often tends to be a reactionary rightwing nationalist bent because people have a lot of resentment to the damage the Soviets and the local communist regime did to the country and the old social structures.
Plus nationalism is always a reaction to external control… and the Soviets were a pretty harsh external force.

That history can unfortunately prime people for modern conspiracy theories like the Soros myths :(

What do you think?

Impurepyxia wrote:
Well, at least this thread is telling me that people are sensible on this site…

Aw, We appreciate it ^_^

fallopiancrusader wrote:
In my opinion, the sentiment that propelled Trump to power was one of wide-spread political nihilism. As far as I can tell, significant swaths of the American electorate seem to believe that establishment politics are so corrupt and ineffectual that there is nothing left to do but burn the whole system down. Although MAGA people refer to themselves as Republicans, they hate old-guard, establishment Republicans just as much as they hate Democrats. And the entire Trump personality cult feeds right into that dynamic.

Hmm, crazy populists do often tend to get on by riding waves of popular sentiment- they spin it as being about their OWN popularity but it's generally something that only tangentially has to do with them and they simply take advantage of it.

They're idiots though, it won't burn down anything of the underlying structure. Trump won't be effective one way or another I think… What will be bad is the anti-science and anti-medical stuff.

But yeah… going back on social changes, increasing racism, ignoring climate change, no help for low income people and so on is going to be bad.
It's a general right-wing appeal to self interest over reality.

That history can unfortunately prime people for modern conspiracy theories like the Soros myths :(

What do you think?

I'd like to say that would explain some things… maybe a part of it, but I think most people got used to it while the soviet were here. If something happens for decades on and on, seemingly without an end you just grow accustomed to it. That's where many local boomers' work mentality comes from: “you don't have to like it, but you have to do it” and back then the most comforting thing for them was knowing that if they work for x years, they'll have enough money to buy a car, buy a house, etc. So that's not something people can plan with anymore. I hate it I absolutely LOATHE IT that in school they talk about the practices of that time: how if someone got reported by a neighbor or someone else, the black car came in the middle of the night and they were taken and sometimes never seen again. Because they talk about this like it's history. Over and done. Um… not for fucking North Koreans, teach! Even if they'd be freed, they'd probably spend the next hundred years just trying to figure out a way to live that's not the same or the direct opposite of the way did ‘til now. It’s kind of like slavery, right? They tell you how bad it was, but how about how bad it IS? Well, I guess that's for college education. Never tried my luck there.

Anyway… No, as far as I'm aware the soviet-ish system just sort of fell apart around us. We didn't exactly pulled off any successful revolutions there. And I definitely hear Hungarians curse “the left” a lot more, than even mentioning “the right”. But perhaps that's the thing about it. The more right we move, the more intense are the nationalist feelings in us, while most ideas and values of the left are imported. From the Soviet Union, now from the States and “Brussels”… As I said yesterday, the story we want to hear is very important. And “we” also want to hear how great we are as we are. But people are so brainwashed here right now, that most would probably sooner live under an actual new Soviet Union, than to let some local leftist party take over, which would prefer building ties with EU and the States. At least for the first week or two. After that, it'd dawn on them that they're royally screwed.

J_Scarbrough wrote:
Actually, that wasn't the mentality of the average voter, that was the DNC screwing us over. In 2016, the average voter made it abundantly clear they wanted Bernie Sanders, but the DNC gave us Hillary Clinton instead, because she would have made history as America's first female President. In 2020, the average voter made it abundantly clear they still wanted Bernie Sanders, but the DNC gave us Joe Biden instead, because he was the veep of America's first black President in history.

The DNC also screwed us over again in 2024, because they didn't give us any else to choose from other than Biden again . . . and then when he bowed out, they just thrusted Kamala Harris into the race, and. . . . Yeah, not a good move.

Oh, yeah! The DNC did employ some fu**ery there didn't they? By making Klebuchar and Buttegieg fall behind Biden so that it became a “us behind Biden vote” instead of a vote for each primary candidate seperately, and then Bernie and Warren dropped out and fell in line behind the guy as well. At least I think that's how it went.

Problems with populists are practically always home-made. Whenever too many people feel that all the politicians “up there” treat them like children, they'll want to fight back - proving them right, kind of.
It all boils down to education. If the educational system is so screwed that it creates large masses of people who sometimes even find being uneducated more attractive, this is what happens. We can see the same process here in Germany, where having done basically nothing for a long time but passing half-baked law after half-baked law that can't even be properly enforced on paper except when it comes for you having to pay for it predictably backfires. Our government coalition just announced its end yesterday, finally. I won't go into details, but they were just the type of government that drives people into populist camps. It's hard to blame people for wanting to give them a heartfelt kick in the arse - the thing is that a bit more education would give them more options other than voting for a dangerous narcissitic stinker.
America in particular and the Western world in general has shot itself in the foot, yesterday. Again. And it didn't miss by an inch. 😩

I feel that funny urge to get out and hit everybody on their heads with history books coming up again, so please excuse me for a while.

Shit!!! I must apologise everybody! I fu**ed up! I was gonna quote Inky's reply on where she quotes Oz answering him about the history of Hungary, I was gonna replay on the Sweden being accused on letting phedophiles have their way in the propaganda over there and in the stress of doing this before getting to my day job I mistakely clicked edit instead of quote and mistakely altered her reply. I'm SO, SO sorry😲😲😲

Voters in a democracy do not get the government they want, they get the government they deserve.

PaulEberhardt wrote:

I feel that funny urge to get out and hit everybody on their heads with history books coming up again, so please excuse me for a while.

It would be beneficial if more people opened up those history books and read them.

kawaiidaigakusei wrote:

PaulEberhardt wrote:

I feel that funny urge to get out and hit everybody on their heads with history books coming up again, so please excuse me for a while.

It would be beneficial if more people opened up those history books and read them.

Those history books, at least in the US can be quite skewed and helped people elect Trump. Go read Lies my Teacher told me. There's a lot of harmful mythology in the popular image of American history. Try to fix it (1619 project for example) and the reactionaries go on the warpath with all kinds of lies and distortions.

Yeah for sure, the current education system is already terrible and even worse there's a movement to censor books and ban certain us history topics by mainly radical right winged Christian unfortunately

Spooky Kitsune wrote:
Yeah for sure, the current education system is already terrible and even worse there's a movement to censor books and ban certain us history topics by mainly radical right winged Christian unfortunately

Quite a bit of science denial and Anti-intellectualism in there too. For some Christians it boils down to "I read the Bible (no, probably not, just selected bits with little to no understanding of the text) and know more science than someone who's spent a lifetime studying it and publishing peer reviewed papers.