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Banes at 1:01PM, June 24, 2023

@InkyMoondrop - I love that movie!

InkyMoondrop at 5:56AM, June 24, 2023

I loved the premise of the film Hero (1992) where Dustin Hoffman's character is a loser. He's mean, grumpy, cinical, selfish and just generally uncomfortable with people. He becomes a hero when he climbs into a crashed airplane (I think to loot bodies) and in the heat of the moment, saves people's lives. Only to later find that a homeless dude took credit for it and enjoys the spotlight in his place. But this guy is actually a good person with a vision and someone who could inspire positive changes... he's just not the one who saved those lives. It's such a great premise for exploring how these roles and chances affect people but the execution must've been mediocre at best, because the movie is almost completely forgotten.

hushicho at 12:20PM, June 23, 2023

Unfortunately, anymore a lot of writers go for the "funny asshole" character, but their sense of humor isn't good enough to make them funny, so they just end up with a bunch of assholes who might have one good line in the whole story. It's all over every medium. It's worth saying that you can be funny without being an asshole, and you can be an asshole and not be funny at all. This same thing is the reason why crapsack worlds rarely work, because the writing is just not solid enough to support them or make them compelling despite unsavoury elements.

J_Scarbrough at 7:01PM, June 22, 2023

There was a comic on ComicFury I had discovered and looked interesting, so I went into reading it, but after going through several pages and about three different chapters/arc, I couldn't stick with it because every single character was a totally unlikeable jerkass - even the seemingly sane, voice-of-reason characters had shades of jerkiness to them. I'm not saying that every single character in a story has to be a goody two shoes, but you would think there could be at least one decent character in a cast of assholes.

hushicho at 12:51PM, June 22, 2023

There are some people who are just naturally charismatic, and that charisma comes through in roles where they must express themselves in the manner of their art. Jack Lemmon was always full of charisma, but there are plenty of actors who are always watchable. Donald Pleasence, Daria Nicolodi, and Peter Cushing were some of my favs who always added so much, and were always interesting to watch above all, no matter what role they played. It's also easy to confuse liking a character with liking the performance, the writing, or the direction. Most people can't separate enjoying an actor and their performance from the character they're playing, and thus they have the mistaken idea that they love a character, when they really just love the take the actor did and what the actor brought to the work.

PaulEberhardt at 9:56AM, June 22, 2023

As Ozoneocean said. The way the character is set up, just makes it impossible to hate him with all your heart, so even a Jack Lemmon couldn't succeed at making him totally unlikable. Levene may not be a nice person, and how much of it is a result of his own shortcomings and how much of it is caused by his environment and what happens to him is open to debate, but at the bottom line I honestly wouldn't act like a nice guy either if I were in his shoes.

Ozoneocean at 9:02AM, June 22, 2023

Lemon's character is an underdog in a movie full of awful, unlikable characters, so that context helps his likability.

marcorossi at 4:29AM, June 22, 2023

I think we should distinguish "likability" from "immedesimation". For example Gandalf is a very likeable character but he is not good for immedesimation, he would be a very lousy protagonist; Boromir is not likeable but he is somehow relatable, and it would be possiblke to have a dramatic story with Boromir as a protagonist. Since the emotional connection with the characters is the most important thing that pulls the reader in, it is often assumed that the prots should be likeable, but this sometimes leads to too perfect guys/gals.

skyangel at 1:09AM, June 22, 2023

I found Jack Lemmon's portrayal of Shelley Levine totally mesmerising in this movie and though he was supported by such a great cast it was really his character that made this for me. He is pathetic, and he's morality as a salesman is the lowest of the low but what I really love about this film is that it feels his desperation comes not so much from trying to make money but more from trying to prove his own worth in life. His constant reminiscing about his best 'closures'are always about how well he performed and not how much money he made; 'old hat' stories he hopes will convince his colleagues he once was a great man. And it's a great contrast to see how arrogant he becomes when he thinks he has made the deal of the century! One of my favourite scenes in this movie is the one where he stays on late, all alone in a big office going through all his 'dead leads' trying to seal a deal as the camera slowly pulls further and further back to show just how sad his character really is.

bravo1102 at 12:22AM, June 22, 2023

Jack Lemmon played a lot of characters who were various levels of pathetic and annoying. It's hard to like Ensign Pulver when introduced in Mr. Roberts. Professor Fate from The Great Race? Anyone standing out in the rain gets pitied and earns empathy no matter how unlikable they are. Even I can get likeable standing out in the rain.

dpat57 at 12:12AM, June 22, 2023

Yeah maybe empathy for someone, no matter what a bleeper they are, pushes them into likability territory and we somehow overlook their faults, because we're dumb that way. The human condition.