ozoneocean wrote:
Number 3: It's not found in nature very often, only in very specific instances, like the Fibonacci sequence- they're useful proportions for creating certain types of spiral pattern so that angles and lines don't intersect or overlap, that's all. Everything else is myth.

Agree with everything but 3 does make me go hmmm sometimes… Maybe we don't see it very often but often enough to make us smile when we see disparate things like galaxies, hurricanes , shells, flower petals, etc all forming the same pattern with the Fibonacci sequence. Yes, maybe just pattern recognition (and maybe just the most efficient way a spiral can form in nature, so it does just that…), but we humans do get that warm, fuzzy, mystical feeling when sensing these sorts of things (deja vu feelings and serendipity coincidence do the same thing…).

We want to apply meaning and intelligence to pattern making because, well… all sorts of theories as to why that is… I say enjoy it, marvel at it, but always tote around a bit ol' bag of skepticism :D

In this case the guy is amazed that the Egyptians use a Pythagorian triangle to lay out the figure's lips. What better way to lay out a massive sculpture to be done by numerous workers than by using mathematical principles? You would chalk out the geometric diagrams and the sculptors would follow them. There was all kinds of evidence of chalk diagrams on some unfinished stone found in various quarries and on the unfinished sides behind the facades of finished work. The Egyptians were brilliant engineers and Pythagoras himself was supposed to have spent years there learning their mathematics.

The so called “Golden mean” is merely an aesthetic proportion of the ancient world. Numbers are sacred. IT was a whole mystical world ruled by the great gods to God the engineer of the Middle Ages. After all the Pythagorian school thought prime numbers were holy and swore everyone to secrecy that the square root of 2 was an irrational number. Such things could not exist in their paradigm, but perfect proportions were everything, like the perfect solids that even Kepler insisted ruled the orbits of the planets because ellipses were so sloppy. Newton was a true mystic. Numbers and proportions are magical. Just read about kabbalah. Pythagoras to kabbalah to alchemy to Free Masons… and now advanced physics and cosmology threatens to drift off into that same magical realm of numbers and formulas all over again.

It helps to step out of your own head and look at it from their point of view. They're hopelessly wrong but it is a fascinating thought experiment.

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Right how I'm watching something else from a totally different point of view. A Chinese movie about the Korean War from their perspective. Propaganda? You bet, but then look at all the movies made from the US point of view about Korea. “The Steel Helmet”, “A Hill in Korea”, “Retreat, Hell” but somehow it's so much worse because the US are the faceless enemy rather than Germans or Japs or Chi-coms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWTWHU73hMk

KimLuster wrote:
Maybe we don't see it very often but often enough to make us smile when we see disparate things like galaxies, hurricanes , shells, flower petals

While those things might not all conform to Fibonacci or the Golden Mean, they're all repeating one thing: A spiral.
The golden mean and Fibonacci thing just over mystifies it, the fact is that spirals are great and they occur a lot, but all for different reasons, and reaching the same result, which is lovely. :)

Galaxies are driven by gravity and coincidence: a massive bunch of matter bashes around and eventually flattens into a disk. The only nothing left is a spinning motion and as it spins the middle goes faster than the outside so it eventually turns into a spiral… Flowers and shells have different reasons. Ends up the same though :)

ozoneocean wrote:

KimLuster wrote:
Maybe we don't see it very often but often enough to make us smile when we see disparate things like galaxies, hurricanes , shells, flower petals

While those things might not all conform to Fibonacci or the Golden Mean, they're all repeating one thing: A spiral.
The golden mean and Fibonacci thing just over mystifies it, the fact is that spirals are great and they occur a lot, but all for different reasons, and reaching the same result, which is lovely. :)

Galaxies are driven by gravity and coincidence: a massive bunch of matter bashes around and eventually flattens into a disk. The only nothing left is a spinning motion and as it spins the middle goes faster than the outside so it eventually turns into a spiral… Flowers and shells have different reasons. Ends up the same though :)

Nothing special, it's just the way things work. :D

And you know humans probably evolved to recognize the patterns so we'd be aware of when things don't fit the pattern. Because that usually means something is going on that requires attention.

I should explain further though- with Fibonacci and the Golden Mean you get those spiral patterns for very specific reasons, reasons that don't exist with things like galaxies or storms, but do exist with a shell (golden mean), or flowers (Fibonacci).

@Bravo- at its very simplest that might explain the reason for the genesis of pattern recognition that all animals have, but for humans we've evolved it a lot further; first to recognise faces, but then adapted it even further to visual images, then to writing and numbers.

ozoneocean wrote:
I should explain further though- with Fibonacci and the Golden Mean you get those spiral patterns for very specific reasons, reasons that don't exist with things like galaxies or storms, but do exist with a shell (golden mean), or flowers (Fibonacci).

@Bravo- at its very simplest that might explain the reason for the genesis of pattern recognition that all animals have, but for humans we've evolved it a lot further; first to recognise faces, but then adapted it even further to visual images, then to writing and numbers.

Most carnivores have highly advanced pattern recognition to include humans. Dogs and cats can recognize symbols and faces and have a far greater sense of sounds and scents (had to do that one ;) But language is more highly developed in humans. Or at least the specificity of what we can communicate and to increase the memory of specific things we developed symbols. One can only count to ten on your fingers (or 37 in base six) but get a clay tablet and suddenly you can keep track of thousands. One man could spend a whole life memorizing and singing the Iliad and Odyssey but with writing anyone who can read can experience it.

And with writing you can keep track of patterns from generation to generation. Part of the evolution of writing was to track stars and tell fortunes over time.(Sumerian and Chinese)

bravo1102 wrote:

Nothing special, it's just the way things work. :D

And you know humans probably evolved to recognize the patterns so we'd be aware of when things don't fit the pattern. Because that usually means something is going on that requires attention.

Absolutely! Without patterns everything is just a chaotic mish-mash, and it's hard to imagine any sort of consciousness arising in such a pattern-less reality… We seem be innately aware that things losing their patterns, dissolving toward chaos, is not a good thing! ;)

Are we back to 100% functionality yet?

same wrote:
Are we back to 100% functionality yet?

Ya, have been for a couple of years now :D

ozoneocean wrote:

same wrote:
Are we back to 100% functionality yet?

Ya, have been for a couple of years now :D

Sweet. I'm on to a couple of old Mafia vets about getting back for a game. Figured since we all have accounts it'd be the best place. Last I remember there was an issue with messaging. If that's sorted that's perfect.

Awesome!
No issues with messages that I know of. In fact you get notifications again for messages now so they're better than ever :)

apparently I joined two websites without actually intending to: Quora and Pinterest. Any suggestions for what I might do with these sites?

I actually use pinterest a lot for grabbing reference images. Without an account, it blocks you from downloading or viewing full images. So it's good for that at least. Personally, I've never gotten much out of it for it's intended purpose of collecting “inspiration”, but I do get a lot of use out of it as an easy way to catalog and bookmark useful images for art.

I have no clue what the hell Quora is though.

I also use Pinterest for reference images. There are a lot of images there from obscure foreign websites and scanned images. I recently was looking for references on the markings on He-177 Greif bombers used in the Mini-Blitz and a 1944 He-111H-20. They were in Pinterest with link to the original sites with text on paint schemes.

Previously I had looked up Fall Gelb Sig.18 auf Panzer I “Bison I” and other Fall of France German armor in the proper paint schemes. (Not over-all grey as previously thought but through research of Thomas Jentz they were camouflaged with brown. He actually went and looked at the pertinent documents as opposed to just staring at pictures)

That's the kind of stuff you'll find there.

I hate pinterest.
When I do google images searches for reference and info on pics most results are from Pinterest now and I consider them garbage because although the pics might be good there are often too many barriers to easy access of just the pic you want and worst of all; 90% of the time they're cut off from any information- ALL you see is the pic, not anything about it.
Yes, occasionally they have relevant titles and descriptions and sometimes even links back to the site they were taken from but that's the tiny minority.

Pinterest is worse than Tumblr in that way, I wish I could exclude it from images searches :(

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It's great as a site in of itself, and good for people who can make use of it, it's just really bad with the way it swamps Google and Bing.

I just did a google image search and almost no pinterest results turned up, so I thought maybe it was a regional thing. Then I did a search on ‘swords’ and suddenly pinterest is everywhere! I think it will be a useful tool for me; great if you're looking for steampunk clothing or something along those lines from what I can see.

Nobody familiar with Quora then? I have no idea how I joined and only found out about it when I got an Email notification that another Ducker was following me on there! Maybe someone has stolen my identity and is joining loads of sites in my name. Or maybe it's like that Roger Moore film, The Man Who Haunted Himself.

Never heard of Quora, but that doesn't mean much. I have found a lot of architecture references through Pinterest that have been useful, so I like that site.


I'm a little late to the discussion about the Golden ratio, but I liked the video I saw on Facebook. It doesn't prove anything, but it's cool to see how it was applied.


My cool news is that Rokulily and I are going into NYC tonight (a Tuesday, which is mildly earthshaking in itself for me) to participate in an experiment at a film premiere where we'll wear contraptions on our heads that gather brain impulses. At the end of the movie, they'll then show imagery created from the collected impulses of both audiences, ours in NY and the other in LA.


They said cast from the movie will also be there, but I doubt that inludes Sam O'Neill, who was the only name I recognized.


And we'll each get 50 bucks, which offsets the train ticket (and possible neurological damage?!!). Something new and different, for me at least.

And… the bubble is now half the size it was. But it jiggles and causes all kinds of reflections like a little drop of water in your eye. So there is still no depth perception and keeping the one eye open for more than a few minutes causes dizziness and disorientation.

Then there is the wonderful battle with everybody over disability. Chasing down the doctor's office, my employer and the state bureaucracy is such a challenge. I might see some money in a couple of months just in time to avoid having my house repossessed.

Sounds Byzantine Bravo!
Although, I hope you're rocking and awesome patch.

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@Ayes- That's fantastic about the movie and the brain scan! Should prove really interesting :D

I'm having a bit of a renaissance with my comicing stuff.
Drawing pages is easier again for me now, I have a good routine, and I'm loving drawing again.
I'm loving THINKING about drawing and the different aspects of page making.
And I'm reading more DD comics.

Just finished re-reading all of The Hub, by Hyena Hell, our Friday newsposter: http://www.theduckwebcomics.com/The_Hub/
That's an addictive world. Astonishing work in there!

@ozone - Great to read that your love of drawing has been reborn. Not mine. Not yet anyway. I'm trying to write and once I set to it, I like it, but there always seems to be some errand that conflicts. I must get stern about it.


So the night on the town was interesting. IMDB indicates that Mindgamers did indeed premier on 28 March 2017, but there were already reviews. Looks like it's a rehash of a film entitled DNX that was out in 2015. Still could use a few more tweaks, but since I think the primary problem is the directing, I don't think there's much that can actually be fixed.


The film itself wasn't the point. We were hooked up to brain impulse detectors that were hooked up to the cloud via tablets just a wee smaller than kindles. Impulses were then collected from 500 viewers in NYC and another 500 in LA.

Before the film started, a Stanford professor spoke about collective consciousness, and then an engineer from the tech group collecting the night's data streams gave an overview of computer calculations. They were suppose to represent the spiritual and scientific perspectives, and both were pretty excited because this was the first time data was to be collected on such a scale from two different geographical points simultaneously.


After the film, the professor and the CEO of the tech group were live from LA to show interactive graphs that quantified the impulses, mostly discerning how focused viewers were. LA was uniformly more engaged, no surprise there. And interestingly, when they checked 2 time stamps that indicated high interest from a great majority, the time stamps aligned with 1) a character's suicide and 2) the only sex scene in the movie.


The professor saw implications for greater individual fulfillment by being able to commune with this kind of technology rather than the current social media (exactly why he drew this conclusion I couldn't tell you). The funniest point was when they announced that in lieu of the $50 payment we could keep the tablet and some guy responded: “WHAT?!!” Because he had bought a ticket, as did many others, but he went into the wrong room.


So yes, good times. And it reminded me that we might be due for another DD meet up. 😊

I think the most important lesson the academic should take away from that screening is that the films need more sex scenes. :D

Have been massively busy of late and about as creative as a used condom. Not long until thay changes but things keep piling up, although some have made me less busy.
Back to being single after my relationship went kaboom, still not entirely sure what went wrong. Managed to go feom getting very serious and planning for the future to not talking within a couple of days. Not even on speaking terms now despite my best efforts. Ah well, guess it wasn't meant to be but gives me more fuel for the comics. My sister finishes radiothwrapy tomorrow so thats the last of the daily hospital runs and flying of to spain again next week to recharge before returning to normal, or as close as I get to normal. Hopefully I can get back to comic making after that.

Sorry to hear it didn't work out Genejoke. At least we'll be getting more comics. :)

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I took my Pentel Pocket Brush out for the first time in five years, expecting to soak it in meths for days to get it running but no, it works as if I'd been using it yesterday! This reminds me of Skoolmunkee, since the two of us were always singing it's praises.
I wonder if she's working as well as she did five years ago too? I'll have to join twitter to find out.

Last time I spoke to Skoolmunkee she was heading back to the USA for a holiday.
She'd bought her own place, decorated it, renovated and did the garden. It looked fantastic.

I was offered a job for the summer at Fort Monroe National Monument, which has been part of the NPS for only six years. The NPS staff there is so small that the superintendent conducted my job interview, and I have to go through another park's HR because Fort Monroe NM has no administrative staff.

Feeling a major (financial) stress weight lifting a little. Replaced by the weight of having to find and arrange housing with the new dog in tow. (Looks like more of a trailer park area than a campground area. I've set up my RV in both. Pluses and minuses to them.)

You know. That actually sounds like a pretty sweet way to live though. I've been lately giving thought to ditching the printing side of my business and focusing more on the design stuff so that I no longer need a physical location and living on the road. More daydreaming than anything, but I can very much see the appeal of living in an RV from national park to national park.

And congrats on finding something. The up and down financial lifestyle is a real killer for stress.

Thanks! It's not a lifestyle I would choose. :P Hoping to find something year round someday. I got the RV for stability. Federal housing is nice but no pets allowed and I hate being a tenant. Costs more to stay in the RV, but it's mine. My sanctuary in an unstable world.

Plus, this particular park has no government housing available, so it gives me an advantage in terms of relocating.

I can believe it. I've lived in some pretty terrible government housing in my service time. The barracks I lived in at the Officer's School had plaques on the door denoting famous Soldiers who lived in those rooms. Mine said, “Maj. Richard Winters”, ie; the guy from Band of Brothers, who went through OCS in something like 1943. It beat sleeping in fighting positions, but only just.

I just like the idea of being able to pick up and move on a whim, and to be able to just spend my day off hiking through whatever park I like. The reality is not as rosy I'm sure.

The logistics are tricky with a dog, a cat, 20 rats, and no truck of my own. XD (I hire someone to move my trailer.)